I do like the prices on the page you sent though!! May have to try that angle on Mr. Daniels next time we talk...
Bolting question
Re: Bolting question
Huh, there it is... looks like some old page, I can't even find it through fixeusa.com.
I do like the prices on the page you sent though!! May have to try that angle on Mr. Daniels next time we talk...
I do like the prices on the page you sent though!! May have to try that angle on Mr. Daniels next time we talk...
Re: Bolting question
Google Fixe Triplex. Top of the search.dustonian wrote:Huh, there it is... looks like some old page, I can't even find it through fixeusa.com. Do like the prices on the page you sent though! I am guessing those are the non-SS prices... don't even think they make those anymore.
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
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Clevis Hitch
- Posts: 1461
- Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:10 pm
Re: Bolting question
first, go buy a clevis. Then drill your wrench at the inch mark that will allow you to stand in a sling and exert the proper ft. lbs. Thats from the "Shade Tree Mechanic" It's a 211 class for indigenous studies
If you give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. If you set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
Re: Bolting question
Love the Red and want to go back soon.
The fact that you guys are having these discussions is great.
Here in the Blue Mountains our rock is generally about 20% the strength of your rock, and is always wet inside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLW8gBhmE7A
With this rock, you can snap a 2" thick slab by hand. This rock is virtually unclimbable, we climb on stff that is ~ 3 times stonger internally, but has a 1/4" hard crust. Thus glue-ins are the only real option for our sport routes.
Whenever I bolt on good rock I find that stainless steel mechanical bolts are great, so easy, but expensive. Back on our glorious choss the time factor of glueins is significant. I use manufactred ring bolts at $4 a pop (tested straight outwards to 35 to 50+ kn, 7800 to 11200 lbs force) or hand made U bolts at 80c each (a bit stronger again).
http://routes.sydneyrockies.org.au/display/thelab/Home
We have tested polyester glues and epoxy glues and found little strength difference, but prefer epoxy as it 'should' last longer.
Various people are right in saying that glue doesn't reliably bond to metal, but only interlocks with it (if I'm ever given manufactured rings I often give them a light grind and add notches, but not within 1" of the eye). The UIAA talks of glue as "grout" to reinforce this point. Also, as Rick pointed out, torque is crucial and hard to get right for mechanical bolts.
You have a few degradation issues at the Red:-
-Non-stainless units will die, slowly or quickly depending on where they are. Get used to replacing them. All bolts must be stainless. As you know where the bolts should be, it's not a bad time to replace them with either a very solid mechanical stainless unit, or a solid glue-in.
-Most beefy stainless bolts should be fine. Some can loosen with repeated falls, particularly on steep stuff as the load levers the bracket out. Then if they are overtightened you may get failures. It might be worth replacing these with glue-ins.
Fatigue is an issue, but proabably not in your rock strength. You could some peform some fatigue testing on a mechanical bolt, say 100 pulls at 1000lb, then remove the bolt and put a gluein into the hole, set and test. To get some decent statistics you'd actually test maybe 5 "mechanical bolts fatigued and replaced by a glue in" sets like this, along with 3 un-fatigued glue-ins to get valid strength comparisions. But you will get blisters from the pumping.
The fact that you guys are having these discussions is great.
Here in the Blue Mountains our rock is generally about 20% the strength of your rock, and is always wet inside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLW8gBhmE7A
With this rock, you can snap a 2" thick slab by hand. This rock is virtually unclimbable, we climb on stff that is ~ 3 times stonger internally, but has a 1/4" hard crust. Thus glue-ins are the only real option for our sport routes.
Whenever I bolt on good rock I find that stainless steel mechanical bolts are great, so easy, but expensive. Back on our glorious choss the time factor of glueins is significant. I use manufactred ring bolts at $4 a pop (tested straight outwards to 35 to 50+ kn, 7800 to 11200 lbs force) or hand made U bolts at 80c each (a bit stronger again).
http://routes.sydneyrockies.org.au/display/thelab/Home
We have tested polyester glues and epoxy glues and found little strength difference, but prefer epoxy as it 'should' last longer.
Various people are right in saying that glue doesn't reliably bond to metal, but only interlocks with it (if I'm ever given manufactured rings I often give them a light grind and add notches, but not within 1" of the eye). The UIAA talks of glue as "grout" to reinforce this point. Also, as Rick pointed out, torque is crucial and hard to get right for mechanical bolts.
You have a few degradation issues at the Red:-
-Non-stainless units will die, slowly or quickly depending on where they are. Get used to replacing them. All bolts must be stainless. As you know where the bolts should be, it's not a bad time to replace them with either a very solid mechanical stainless unit, or a solid glue-in.
-Most beefy stainless bolts should be fine. Some can loosen with repeated falls, particularly on steep stuff as the load levers the bracket out. Then if they are overtightened you may get failures. It might be worth replacing these with glue-ins.
Fatigue is an issue, but proabably not in your rock strength. You could some peform some fatigue testing on a mechanical bolt, say 100 pulls at 1000lb, then remove the bolt and put a gluein into the hole, set and test. To get some decent statistics you'd actually test maybe 5 "mechanical bolts fatigued and replaced by a glue in" sets like this, along with 3 un-fatigued glue-ins to get valid strength comparisions. But you will get blisters from the pumping.
Re: Bolting question
Wow, now that is some choss! I didn't know the rock in the Blue Mtns was so soft.... may have to mark that one off the list of places to visit! The rock is way harder in the Arapiles and Grampians, no?
Anyway thanx for your perspectives... totally agree solid stainless is the way to go here... basically though it's $15+ for 1/2" expansion setups or $4-7 for glue-ins... not a tough choice IMO. Regardless, gluing is still kind of a pain in the ass!
Anyway thanx for your perspectives... totally agree solid stainless is the way to go here... basically though it's $15+ for 1/2" expansion setups or $4-7 for glue-ins... not a tough choice IMO. Regardless, gluing is still kind of a pain in the ass!
Re: Bolting question
[quote="dustonian"]Wow, now that is some choss! I didn't know the rock in the Blue Mtns was so soft.... may have to mark that one off the list of places to visit! The rock is way harder in the Arapiles and Grampians, no?
> oh it's great to climb on, but you need slightly better gear than in the real world. My favorite climbing area really. Yes the Gramps and Arapiles are great too. much harder rock.
> oh it's great to climb on, but you need slightly better gear than in the real world. My favorite climbing area really. Yes the Gramps and Arapiles are great too. much harder rock.