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I know I sound crazy...I feel crazy... It seems the be all and end all of everything regarding Iraq, Afghanistan, The measure of success or failure of the Bush administration and of the eventual downfall of the U.S. economy....all that bad decision making seems to come back on WMD's... thats what it feels like. At least thats what the Liberals woulc have you believe. It kinda follows along the same logic of the poem; For want of a nail the shoe was lost. People keep trying to link it all together like this...If W. had've not went into Iraq under false pretense then we wouldn't have been preoccupied and he would've been attendant on the economy and we wouldn't be in the mess we are now...Kinda simplistic.

Clevis - Obama's supporters elected him because they were lead to believe that, under his leadership, Guantanamo would be closed and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would be over in nothing flat. He'd negotiate away the mad Mullah's desire for nukes, and peace and serenity would rule in this world. Also, that he was a pragmatic centrist who would reduce the influence of powerful special interest groups.

Was Obama just a naive and idealistic young man, promising only what he truly believed he could deliver, or was he just another cynical politician with a dead lock on an election-winning strategy? Most likely, a bit of both.

In any event, the Mullah's have told The One We've Been Waiting For to "shove it", special interest groups wield more power than ever, and facing up to the challenge of Radical Islam's War on Everyone Not Subservient to Radical Islam, Obama is running the war pretty much the same way Bush did. Guantanamo is still open and likely to remain so, and, after much dithering, Obama is launching his "surge" in Afghanistan, all while sending drones into Pakistan to conduct extra-judicial executions (now that's modern warfare!) and finally, holy shit, sending Biden out to claim Iraq as his administration's great success! Fucking beauty, I tell ya. Especially since Biden opposed the surge in Iraq and advocated partitioning of the country.

I hope everyone realizes I just bring up these topics to promote discussion and, hopefully, enlighten us all. Or maybe, just to rub my lefty buddies' noses in it. I know your heart's in the right place, Clevis, but don't let this stuff get to you, we're just having fun.

If I come of a sounding aggravated It's because I was. But that doesn't mean that I'm wrong. I don't take this shit serious and neither should anyone take what I say. I stopped listening to the news 8 months ago. No sense worrying about what I couldn't affect. Same thing with whats on here. None of us can change the past. We can take what we know about it and beat each other up but we still can't change it. I don't think the WMD question is that big of a deal. Some people do. Neither one of us can change what happened though. So its moot....

Clevis Hitch wrote:You seem to want to put all of your cards on the ONE POINT in the State of the Union Address. It was one point. He named off a laundry list of reasons to go into Iraq.

Yes, I am focusing on the WMDs. 1) not everyone was fooled. 2) None of the other reasons were worth the war. 3) Even though Iraq HAD WMDs they are a sovereign nation. They have the right to arm themselves. The USA has WMDs. There was nothing that Bush gave me to support war in Iraq.

congress all seemed to be fooled caribe....except for kucinich

pigsteak wrote:congress all seemed to be fooled caribe....except for kucinich

There were more holdouts than that and I would have voted Kucinich before Obama in a heart beat!

Clevis Hitch wrote:Neither one of us can change what happened though. So its moot....

I believe you mean to say that it's "moo". like a moo point.

I know what a "moot" point is, but what is a "moo" point? Is that like saying that the point is bullcrap?

Iregardless of whether or not we should've gone or not, we're there. It's like poker....we're all in! As far as Afghanistan; I like our people being there. Keeps the bad guys under pressure. It also give every jackass with a head full of allah a shortcut to paradise!

We should just walk away from both Iraq and Afghanistan. In so doing we do less harm to both us and them.