Coming of Age

[caribe]

<snip> Nobody gets out of life alive.

ha ha that is good chuck!!

<snip> If that were the case why not embrace the anarchy and chaos that results from no sort of cooperation at all? <snip>

Because spending effort to reap pain and chaos makes less sense than spending effort to reap bliss and harmony. You might have thought that question was rhetorical, but it has an easy answer.

[ahab]

Because spending effort to reap pain and chaos makes less sense than spending effort to reap bliss and harmony.

not if reaping pain and chaos brings you bliss and harmony.

[JR]

Wes is my hero.

[Wes]

Ah, Nobody gets out alive. Best v2 in the us?

As for everything else, I don't think just being a piece of meat is a bad thing at all. It just is what I am, so to speak.

Also, kindness, love, positive vibes are absolute not tied to have any kind of religion (yes, new agey stuff is one) or spiritually at all. Pretty sure it has been shown the being kind and generous makes you happy in this life, so I am all for enlightened self interest.

Why does there have to be something more for people to be good? Do you need some kind of parental (god, buddha, allah, the force, the gnomes, etc) unit always looking over your shoulder, judging you for you to act right?

I kinda think we may miss the point of things when we focus on whether we're "pieces of meat" or not, or whether there is a reward or punishment when said piece of meat's time has come. Who cares how valuable your current body is? It's at best a flash in the pan so it's not really useful to discuss it, or get hung up on it. Nobody gets out of life alive.

But then it's not new age touchy feely crap to understand actions have effects (that concept is built on teachings closer to 3000 yrs old). I don't really care about what happens after the transition, maybe there's something, maybe there's nothing, it doesn't really matter to me. I have faith that if I act properly, and influence things positively when I influence them at all, then everything is going to work out not only for me for for those that I meet on the path.

If after this one I get another step, then I hope to be better prepared to rock the next step. If this is the only step, then I want to believe I rocked this step. No reason to make it any more complex than that.

Saying there is nothing to it and we are simply pieces of meat really doesn't do it for me. If that were the case why not embrace the anarchy and chaos that results from no sort of cooperation at all? I know y'all too well to believe you don't think it matters if we play nice or not.

I guess my basis to understanding the gig is not built on the material that's making the motions, rather it's the motions made by this material.

[JR]

I feel that everyone should have the same realization I have, because if everyone suddenly realized that the most beneficial thing we can do is to abandon the ego, it seems like the world would suddenly be a much better place.

Dhuff. Does this seem narcissistic to you? Or are you just advocating everyone trip at least once in their lives?

[dhuff]

I think charlie's right. Focusing on whether we believe we are more than these bodies is not getting anywhere. Though I wish I could convince everybody of what I know to be true(there's the damned ego again), this is not what I should be doing. Sorry, guys. I just recommend being as much of a positive force in day-to-day life as we can. All other revelations will occur when the time is right.

[dhuff]

Justin, that statement is saying that if everyone looked out for everyone else more than themselves, the world would be better. I don't feel like that's narcissistic at all. I think it's quite true.

[charlie]

Why does there have to be something more for people to be good? Do you need some kind of parental (god, buddha, allah, the force, the gnomes, etc) unit always looking over your shoulder, judging you for you to act right?

Heh, there's where I think we are having two different conversations. Spirituality is not religion. Personification of these kinds of things really has never worked for me and I think that's the main reason religious teachings are so easily corrupted. The boogey man is gonna get you has never really driven me to a better path. In this I think Wes and I are saying the same thing.

If I worship anything or am driven by "something more" it is the plain and simple fact that I may fail to fully realize the potential of my "essense" or whatever you want to call it. The only driving force looking over my shoulder is my potential for growth and I do not consider spiritual growth a handicap.

There is maybe nothing "more" than Human Nature, but that's plenty for me. I have faith that we are all blessed with the potential for divinity. Everyone has the potential to be The Buddha, God is in everyone, the force is strong with this one, etc. We are all potentially great, some just make more progress than others.

To ignore that Human Nature, that little bit of a conscious that scratches in most everyone's mind helping us differentiate between good and bad even when we aren't doing good doesn't work for me. Trivializing everyone's innate potential for divinity by saying we are walking pieces of meat just seems to be a mistake.

That's the kind of thinking that makes me lazy. Moving around spiritually stagnant is in my mind an even bigger handicap than becoming physically stagnant. Of course, that's just my take on things and I got nothing figured out.

[charlie]

Bright side, this thread has really helped me curb that tendency to be a wordy mothereffer.

[Nick]

"As if that blind rage had washed me clean, rid me of hope; for the first time, in that night alive with signs and stars, I opened myself to the gentle indifference of the world. Finding it so much like myself—so like a brother, really—I felt that I had been happy and that I was happy again. For everything to be consummated, for me to feel less alone, I had only to wish that there be a large crowd of spectators the day of my execution and that they greet me with cries of hate."


The chaplain knew the game well too, I could tell ... right away: his gaze never faltered. And his voice didn't falter, either, when he said, "Have you no hope at all? And do you really live with the thought that when you die, you die, and nothing remains?" "Yes," I said. (2.5.15)

I think that The Stranger by Camus should be required reading in schools. Even if you aren't a nihilist I think that you can gain a very different perspective of life. It defininately changed how I viewed a lot of things