Response to Injuries in Muir Valley

[rhunt]

Hey Canuck - thanks for taking the time off your busy schedule to post. I think I disagree with how you say a gri gri "sit" I hate to ask you more questions but I just didn't follow that post - maybe someone else can chime in and explain.

I will say that when I look down of my gri gri while belaying i want the rope and device to look just like I was using any other belay device - that is - rope coming out of device at the brake side right side (for me) and out to the climber side on left side (for me). So the gri gri should be positioned parallel to me not perpendicular. When we brake we brake down towards out hip/knee not to our grotch.

Then again - really what's the difference - bottom line is the golden rule, never take your hand off the brake end of the rope and there should never be a problem. And just for a reality check - climbing has its inherited risks so your belayer might not arrest your fall and you could die.

[Saxman]

Rhunt, she was referring to the orientation the locking carabiner takes depending on how it is attached to the harness.

[rhunt]

umm - yea I still don't get it Can someone draw me a picture

[pru]

imagine the orientation of your biner when it is through just your belay loop (as it should be for a gri gri) vs its orientation when it is through both harness loops (the way us unsafe types do it when we use our rappel devices to maybe keep your ass off the ground). The former gets the gri gri in the correct orientation so it can move freely up and down while oriented vertically. The latter does not.

Does that help?

[pru]

here ya go:
http://www.mtntools.com/cat/rclimb/bela ... GriGri.jpg

[pru]

I can't believe I am in this discussion... but the dog threads, well I haven't even clicked those

[Saxman]

Rhunt, try putting a carabiner through the belay loop and look at how the carabiner wants to orient itself. Now put the carabiner through the leg and waist loops and compare.

[jenH]

any update on the climber that was injured? are they going to recover fully?

[Artsay]

regarding your #3 canuck, that brings up a question in my mind that i forgot to ask artsay. ARTSAY, when you belayed that day i'm curious if you had the locking carabiner through the belay loop or through the two harness loops?

My locking biner is attached to the belay loop, not the two harness loops.

Brentucky - I was going to ask the same question. For me this reinforces the reason why I do not use the "belay" loop to belay.

Actually rhunt, I hate to call you out but what you said about the GriGri needing to be parrallel to you (rope feeding through the same way as an ATC) is incorrect. The rope should run directly perpendicular to you, the opposite way the rope runs through an ATC. If you use the harness loops you change the angle a GriGri is designed to be held at and the result pinches your rope. Also, the rolled metal area which is designed for your rope to run on doesn't get utilized at this angle either.

We used the GriGri this way (the wrong way) for years at a gym I worked at in college and all our ropes were pinched flat. Then a Petzl rep gave us a visit and showed us the "correct" way to use a GriGri and told us the reasons why. The rope runs much smoother through the device when used through the belay loop.

From what Norma says, it sounds like not only can a "wrong angle" pinch your rope but it can also cause device failure??? I'd sure like to see more tests on this.

GriGri Manual: http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technica ... 4601-I.pdf

[rhunt]

ok I give up, y'all are right, I have been belaying and using a gri gri the wrong way for the past 10 years. To all my Cbus crew past and present forgive me for almost killing you.

I promise to change my ways...