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have you understood nothing dhuff has been trying to tell you?

clif wrote:have you understood nothing dhuff has been trying to tell you?

Now that you mention it . . . no I haven't. Perhaps you can clarify some of his main points for me.

caribe wrote:People are not sub-nano-sized particles that dissipate their kinetic energy off each other.

well, some of them are:

so when people talke about "good vibes"......they are full of sh**?

Caribe, my point is that there are many routes with only endurance being the crux with no distinct move being harder than another- chainsaw for example. I realize your idea (a clever one) relies on moves stratifying themselves bases on the amount of difficulty one individual move would take relative to the other moves on the route.
Back to a molecule undergoing energy input to facilitate a change, if a reaction consisted of not one discrete transition that was rate limiting, but many or all steps being burly and requiring the energy input to drop the clutch from the start to the end, the reaction probably would never occur, being too improbable.
That is how I see the enduro pitches of the Red. Not one move but all requiring the same high amount of energy input.

Look at it like this:

A certain car tire on certain pavement creates a certain friction. The car can only move "forward" along the road without stalling and/or rolling backwards so long as the car has gas and the hills of the road remain below some angle. Naturally some cars are better than others, and some are better in different ways (a dragster versus a Prius for example).

You describe a pure endurance route. Say it is a constant 50 degree hill that is 1 mile long. Some cars will make it, some cars won't (overheat, run out of gas, not enough friction, not enough power, whatever).

Not to say climbing can be broken down so simply, and this also mostly negates the mental stuff. Nonetheless, for sake of easy imagination it is as simple as having various types of cars with various types of fuel and putting them on various types of roads. The steep hills are the shut down parts for some while it's the long haul for others. Also, cars run "best" at certain temperatures, rpm's, etc. so it is up to the driver to know when to punch it and when to push it slow and steady or even when to stop and refill given the opportunity.

It certainly won't be some 2-D graph where you can integrate the area under the curve, but take the math into higher dimensions and add more variables and you got a shot.

the lurkist wrote:Caribe, my point is that there are many routes with only endurance being the crux.

good point

Brentucky wrote:A certain car tire on certain pavement creates a certain friction.

yep. the details make a dicey issue; route grading has always been dicey at best.

does anybody else see that suffuse golden halo?

most of the kick-ass high tech routes have been over looked in the Red in favor of low tech enduro. (not saying one is better than the other, and yes there is a certain amount of technique required to rest on a over hang and efficiency of movement). The cool thing is that there is way more V oriented slab climbing in the Red than there is enduro climbing. It just that up to this point there hasn't been that much developement of the vert/slab climbing. Just a handful of these climbs exhist. the good news is they are still out there waiting to be put up!