Todd Skinner

[Andrew]

Anybody who has climbed with me for any length of time knows that I have a second belay loop on my harness. I always clip into both. I have been doing this for years. I like using the belay loop to belay, but never liked how worn it would look after a while or liked having that extra single point of possible failure.

It also provides an extra, solid clipping point.

[the lurkist]

This is also pure speculation, but Skinner climbed a lot. Maybe 2 -3 days per week? over a year. He probably went through gear relatively fast (shoes, ropes, harnesses) Even with conventional use of a harness tie in points (waist blet, leg loops) or clip in points (belay loop), I would think his belay loop took an additional continuous wearing stress to fail. Like ynot suggested, it sounds to me like something other than typical wear was wearing on it. Maybe he had a girth hitched aider or daisy to his belay loop and the constant loading and unloading of it with body weight caused undue wear. Obvious speculation, but I am curious, b/c it just doesn't make sense for it to fail with typical use.

[gunslnga]

Like ynot suggested, it sounds to me like something other than typical wear was wearing on it. Maybe he had a girth hitched aider or daisy to his belay loop and the constant loading and unloading of it with body weight caused undue wear. Obvious speculation, but I am curious, b/c it just doesn't make sense for it to fail with typical use.

In a more direct way, Lurkist said what I mean, thanks!!

[Saxman]

Ynot may be right, but it is far from a no brainer. We have no way of knowing unless the harness is analyzed by someone. Still, all manner of items made for all types of uses wear out under normal use. Everything from helicopter rotors to the very rock we climb on wears with use which is why so many things we make have expected lifetimes and why we should retire them early rather than too late. BTW, microabrasions, or friction, are what cause wear to our woven items. This is not the same as an abrupt cut caused by something sharp or pointed.

[ynot]

Jeeze, it's like talkin to a brick.

[Saxman]

Thanks.

[Steve]

Anybody who has climbed with me for any length of time knows that I have a second belay loop on my harness. I always clip into both. I have been doing this for years.

Me too. I back up belay loop as soon as I get a new harness. And some people laugh at me and my little purple webbing backing up my beefy belay loop. Do they laugh at yours too Andrew?

When I read of the passing of Skinner I felt sad for his family, friends, and partners. Then I thought of that little piece of purple webbbing backing up my belay loop on my harness. Of course there is no way of knowing if backing up the belay loop would've prevented this accident, but I'm sure it couldn't hurt. Of course there is no point to a back up loop if you let it get worn out like the belay loop.

[Saxman]

The report clearly says it was worn. something was chewing it away. it's a no brainer. Something in his setup had to be chewing on it. Maybe a really small locker gate,

"Over time, and given Skinner's prolific use, the chafing action simply sawed through the loop." Rock and Ice Issue 156, pg 30

No chewing or sharp objects involved, simply overuse coupled with misuse of daisy chains.

[Zspider]

Steve wrote:

Of course there is no point to a back up loop if you let it get worn out like the belay loop.

**************
Not entirely true. Even if it's worn and crummy, it still serves as a backup. The chance that both supports would fail at exactly the same time is marginal.

Skinner became calloused and indifferent to one of the most elementary rules of safey in climbing, and he paid the price.

Where's the person who suggested that they hoped the climber hadn't procreated and polluted the gene pool with stupidity?

ZSpiddy

[mcrib]

I become calloused when I climb