RRC Archives

I guess that's what I'm saying pig.

No one seems to "be in the know" on these issues. Not even the folks who administered the "closings" themselves.

If the RRGCC felt it was truly detrimental to the cause for people to climb at these areas, I'd think they'd post a sign at Miguel's saying something like "DO NOT GO TO THE ARENA" like they did with Pocket Wall.

Most climbers are smart people and they see that there is no real sense of urgency with these "closures".

This seems to be the problem.

BTW.....trad day was great. I got on Snake and Party Time at Fortress and had a blast.

I'll be at the gym tonight. Maybe I'll see ya there!

Not RRGCC bashing here...

quote from first paragraph on rrgcc.org site concerning the PMP
"All of the Pendergrass-Murray Preserve is now open to climbing"

i guess that says it all.

yawn..here we go again..it IS open..but the land below those two crags is NOT part of the property..so while their statement is true, it may be misleading to those who didn't read the entire posting....

pigsteak wrote:yawn..here we go again..it IS open..but the land below those two crags is NOT part of the property..so while their statement is true, it may be misleading to those who didn't read the entire posting....

ok..do i need to say anymore...

isn't that what this whole thing/thread today was about....incorrect and misleading info and mis-informed climbers


oh and....yawn...

I think this all a lot of bull shit, flat out! Who fucking cares, and if you do care, go help out with opening these areas. As for me, I am just going to go climb somewhere that is OPEN.

As for people checking every form of possible information before they go somewhere...you made a good point. However, would you like to know what I(and most other people do) when I (they) go climbing??? I go to a local outdoor store, buy the guide book, and check the weather. If everything looks good, I go. So....maybe if there was anything in the guide book about any closures, people might be more privy to them. So, I think that there should be more sign-age all over the place down at the red where it would be logical and in high traffic places. I.E Miguel's or the parking area in question.

Man I cannot believe that i missed this. I agree with what EVERY poster here has said. The Pendergrass-Murray purchase is an amazing accomplishment. The volunteers who worked to make this happen, including those who donated money in dues and in buying routes, should be commended.

People are having the same problem as always. Lack of or ineffective communication. Gretchen's whining about how the local community doesn't support the effort is bunk. Only two people from Lexington or Eastern Kentucky even posted. The rest were from Ohio, Illinois and Michigan. Wake up, it's a problem. And I'm sure as hell glad that you're not my mama.

Anyway, the hyper-defensive attitude only serves to undermine people's confidence in you. Everyone supports the purchase, everyone supports working with the Forest-Service and trying to reopen State Parks.

Now, all Gretchen is doing is alienating people who called her friend. In her self-absorbed, holier-than-thou manner. Showing herself to be the two-faced, conniving, wind-bag who I already knew her to be.

Johnny wrote:This board is getting really depressing. I wish the PMRP issue could be discussed in a positive light. We're so much better off today than we were last year. Thanks to the few of you who are brave enough to post that it was a big accomplishment and that the RRGCC volunteers have done their very best. I hope you really reflect the majority of climbers.

I'm guilty of some negativity myself, but it shouldn't be terribly surprising. I've worked on a nearly $2 million dollar veterinary facility, that when complete, caused the veterinarian's business to grow by 20%-30% per MONTH. But he was griping to me about a couple of leaky soap dispensers and millimeter wide cracks in a concrete slab. The little problems often overshadow the big achivements in the end-user's mind.

That said, this thread all traces back to the Coalition's problems with communication and PR. And, to a fair degree, a tendancy for the Coalition to appear to be largely inward-looking and not acting with a clear understanding of how all of us 'whiney baby' climbers (sorry, forgot the exact quote) are going to react to either statements or the absence of information.

Gretchen, just in case you are wondering, I gave you and brian the whiney bitch titles. Because they fit, even before this thread. Regardless of all the great work you have done (and there is a lot of it), you have done more to alienate a large part of the on-line climbing community than any other person. You really do need to learn when to just STFU and let things slide, as it will serve your cause much better. I believe the old saying is that you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Wes

Sorry you feel that way, Jonny. I don't think anyone who will climb in the new areas being established will continue to malign the RRGCC after they have experienced those walls. After I have seen them, all I can say is "thank you for your efforts".
The masses are expressing frustration over misleading info on the RRGCC site that says two different things, and knowing RRGCC personel monitor this site and no one tries to step in and be a voice of information, I think you can't be surprised when people bitch. I don't think the bitching is in dissatisfaction of the way the mission of the RRGCC is being carried out. Again, you all have succeeded against really improbable odds. I think, though, that the dissatisfaction is, as tomdarch said, a reflection of the inward looking MO of the RRGCC, and secondary to this, not including the community. Lack of including the community leads folks to wonder, "what role do I play." If folks could be more vested- allowed to participate, I think you would have a lot more team players, instead of Monday morning quarter backs.
The CAC needs to be used, and tasks delegated. Put these people to work, and don't have the RRGCC micro manage the projects after it has been delegated.
BTW- the RRGCC isn't four board members and an ED, despite what some might think. It is/should be the community getting behind the mission.

P.S. I don't consider Gretchen as the voice of reason, when she gets involved in a cat fight in what otherwise was a decent discussion. No offense Gretchen, but we need realtime info, not mud wrestling.

Before I read the other threads I wanted to post one more thing. I neglected to give the RRGCC mad props for the strides that they have made in communicating with the community thus far. The BOD and Vic have really done a lot of work to improve communication efforts and the efforts have shown. I think that some frustration expressed here is just some growing pains of getting used to it and what I perceive to be Gretchen's poor communication skills.