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dustonian wrote: Agreed, at the very least there should be large red unavoidable signs in the parking lot and in the guidebook describing the suggested admission donation of $2-3 per person or $3-5 per car (or whatever seems fair). This suggested policy needs to be broadcast far and wide on this website, Muir's site, gyms, and so on.

A similar model has arisen in big cities with funding-starved arts organizations, theater companies, and museums, whose hearts are not yet calloused enough to turn away those with less disposable income: "pay what you wish (but we strongly suggest $x)". Greater than 90% pay the strongly suggested amount. Let's be real, if a climber can afford $20-100+ to drive their asses to the Red and back to Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Quebec, Ontario, Colorado or wherever, then they can damn well pay $2-3 each for the privilege of climbing at Muir.

Yes. If all of us work together to create an atmosphere in which not donating is seen as incredibly bad form, and tacky, with "suggested" donations, it would be a step in the right direction. A big sign would help, as well as having all Muir volunteers just ask users, point blank, when they check for wavers, "did you donate today?"

We have some challenges with getting people to give. Below are some reasons people give their money to a non-profit cause, taken from research performed by give2gether.com. They listed the first on the list as the important reason why people give money.

Pivotal involvement - Everyone wants to think that their contribution was necessary and sufficient for the success of a fundraising campaign.
To date, we have never had a successful fundraising campaign for Muir Valley BECAUSE in order to have a successful fundraising campaign, you need to have a target and goals to objectify the success. So, we need to set goals... both monetarily and for our cause. What do we want to achieve and how much will it cost to achieve it?

Being asked - It's very simple, but people need to know that they're personally invited to contribute.
We have begun to ask, but we can ask a lot more.

Guilt - People start to feel bad if they're in a position to help but don't act on opportunities.
People will only feel guilt, if they feel there donation is needed. To date, that sense of need and urgency has not been created.

Compassion - Seeing campaigns that need support can trigger an emotional response, especially if the donor feels attached to the recipients of a particular campaign.
We see new parking lots, immaculate facilities, infrastructure improvements happening all the time. What need is there? (sarcasm) Maybe a half finished parking lot sitting for a season would have better served Muir.

Transparency - Donors are more likely to give if they know exactly where their money is going and how much of it will get passed along to the cause.
This is tricky because we have transparency with FoMV, but not with the Webers. An operational budget would help.

Urgency - When time is running out, individuals feel more pressure to give.
What urgency... The Weber's will be there forever, right? (sarcasm)

Recognition - Having a good deed made public can have an impact on how people view the donor in a positive way.
Large donors could be publicly recognized. With 30,000 visits/year, there should be the possibility for corporate sponsorship and recognition.

Simplicity - Campaigns that have clear and straightforward goals are easier to understand and support.
What are our goals? What are we trying to achieve? "Help the Webers out" is about as much as I understand, but this is ambivalent.

Euphoria - Making a difference makes a supporter feel good because they know they did something worthwhile.
Liz has stated in this thread. Muir Valley is not in any threat of closing for the immediate future. Our donation doesn't make a difference (sarcasm).

Guaranteed success - Knowing that a goal will definitely be reached eliminates uncertainty and makes it easier to contribute.
Again, we don't have clearly set goals... so we certainly will not reach it.

Campaigns in the news (Japan, Haiti) - Hearing about a specific fundraising campaign whenever a TV or radio is turned on, a newspaper is opened, or a website is loaded keeps the cause in the minds of potential donors.
Once we have a goal and a clear cut cause, we need to spread the word using all available media. Print, word of mouth, rock climbing forums, signs, social media (FB), etc.

Peer pressure - People are compelled to be a part of what their friends are involved in.
Once a need has been established, consequences laid out if we don't succeed, a clear target of what is needed to succeed, we can effectively place pressure on our peers to donate.

Celebrity endorsement - By contributing to campaigns that are championed by celebrities, donors feel like they're more connected to their favorite stars because they're supporting what they care about.
Lets get the Rock Stars that come to the Red behind the cause.

Ability to influence others - A contribution from one person can result in untold contributions from their network.
You convince one person of the cause, and pretty soon their whole climbing posse is donating every time the walk by the box.

To summarize, it seems that we need a clearly defined cause with defined goals and metrics of success. We also need to clearly paint a picture of the what the consequences are of both succeeding, or not. Or in short, we need clarity.

climb2core..I never thought of you as the debbie downer...until this subject. please put all of that energy to some positive resolution to an issue at hand.

And please don't include me when you use "We".
Thanks

pigsteak wrote:climb2core..I never thought of you as the debbie downer...until this subject. please put all of that energy to some positive resolution to an issue at hand.

Kipp, you see pessimism in my comments. I see reality. I think all could agree the the fund raising efforts of FoMV have not succeeded, based upon the simple observation that the Weber's do not feel the needs have been met.

This was part of a SWOT analysis... and it did focus on the weaknesses. I took a few moments to do some research into what it takes to successfully get people to give to a non-profit. After that, I compared some of these keys to success to where we are at, at least from my outside perspective. Many of my comments written below the key point were written from the perspective of the average Joe climber with sarcasm intended. But the important thing is this: I see places where FoMV could do better. And that my friend, is good news.... because that means there is opportunity.

You are correct though. There are many strengths for FoMV that I had not touched on in my last post. Many good people already involved, 30,000 visitors/year, some of the best rock climbing in the country to name a few. We will need to draw upon those strengths to create a value proposition that will make people WANT to donate.

I am already putting my energy to a positive resolution. Stay tuned.

I don't see the pessimism at all in C2C's posts. I see someone who has done his research on motivating factors in fundraising along with suggestions. We have to look at what has not worked and progress with ideas that have worked in this situation and similar. Every one of his posts have hit the nail on the head of what is needed to persuade those 30,000+ people to pony up.

sorry Ian...came off a bit harsh.

here are my two main suggestions . no more driving into the valley by anyone except emergency vehicles. that should keep the road in better shape for emergencies.

and secondly, go back to limited parking of say 10-15 parking spots. it is unrealistic to continue to expand parking before the money is there to support more visitors. kindly tell folks that when the money is raised, more people will be allowed in the park.

dustonian wrote: Agreed, at the very least there should be large red unavoidable signs in the parking lot and in the guidebook describing the suggested admission donation of $2-3 per person or $3-5 per car (or whatever seems fair). This suggested policy needs to be broadcast far and wide on this website, Muir's site, gyms, and so on.

Yeah...more stern signage would be great, I think. The most recent ones, while well-written, seem small and flimsy; easy to ignore.

I'm imagining something more like THIS, with a big-ass sign on the top. Something climbers can see from 200 ft away as they're walking down the road.

pigsteak wrote:sorry Ian...came off a bit harsh.

Harsh? Nah, your comments are not even in that ballpark. Have you seen my Herd Mentality fans comments...

as someone who has come with several different groups of people new to the gorge i think large, clear signage would absolutely make a difference. when i first started coming i had no idea the situation that muir is in. i had no conception that muir was different from the pmrp, or from the national forest land, or whatever. rock was rock. i suspect that a lot of people that are in that situation are similarly ignorant. and, yeah, you could say that i was, and those kinds of people are, the problem -- not doing the homework we need to do about where we're climbing, etc. but, hand-wringing won't get results. i hear a lot on this site about how awful climbers are but i can't think of a single person i've been climbing with that wouldn't toss $5 in a donation box every visit to ensure climbing remains viable at muir. i think signage could be particularly important for muir as my guess is that it draws disproportionately from people completely new to the area.

anyhow, i know i'm not saying anything that people haven't considered before...just thought i'd add a perspective from someone who has recently pulled into that glorious parking lot with a car full of people confronting the situation for the first time.