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I had a harley the other year and it rode like an iron wheeled wagon! I had a Suzuki dl-1000 at the same time and cadillac wishes it rode as smooth. I rode that dl from L.A. to Kentucky in three days.

If people could just clear out of the crag when I get there, so I can enjoy nature, meditate before my sends, etc...I would appreciate it!

I would recommend the following if you think the crag is too crowded:

Poop in plain sight of everyone.

Bring your 3 kids under the age of 7 to the cliff all day (no naps either!).

Play loud music on your boom box to psych up for climbing.

Let your dog run wild, barking nonstop, biting people, and eating their food, plus pooping in plain sight.

Scream on every move you make on that 5.11 redpoint go.

Bring 19 friends w/ you and monopolize every route worth doing.

Speak French exclusively, even though you are fluent in English.

Puch someone in the face because they took too long on a route.

Spray beta at people you have never met while they are climbing.

Throw a wobbler on every climb.

I do many of these and it really helps to get some elbow room at the crag. Hope this helps!

The kids are sweet, good people but the French guy with them is doing a poor coaching job, IMO. I had a bad experience with them at Shady Grove...I was "next in line" on a route and "coach" told "kid" climbing to come down because of a incorrectly tied knot (props to coach!). Kid was halfway up an 80ft+ route, on it for 20 min, so I thought I was next? Not so, not so....when I asked kid if I was up he looked to coach to answer whom said kid was going to retie and go again.

Personally, I would've told kid he should've tied his knot right the first time, already had his turn, and made a lesson out of it. Doesn't seem to me the kids are being taught the right crag ethics...

Oh and FWIW they were on said route for 4 hours straight before I was in the mix...

hmm. so what's the ethical call? punch the coach or the kid?

clif wrote:hmm. so what's the ethical call? punch the coach or the kid?

Sucker punch the coach, but wait a couple hours after the dispute.

Ray and Michelle should start climbing before 3 PM.....and be first in line..and then punch the kid for sure.

Clevis Hitch wrote:mamma tried to raise me right but I refused...

I like some Merle myself.

It isn't just guided groups. I took my non-climber friend to the Shire on Thursday (thinking it would be less crowded) and the 4 easy routes were 4+ deep in terms of the wait. This was all one group. They were nice though, and let us work in.

Same day, took my friend over to the Gallery to do the 5.8. The three 5.10's had ropes hanging on them w/ nobody climbing. The large group was also on the 11a and told us there were 7 more people to do the 5.8. All from Maine. They did not offer to let us work in (I told them we were just there to do the 5.8 and move to another crag). Waited 2 hours for the 7 people to go on the route and just as I thought it was our turn, two more from their group walked up and said that they were next (even though they had been at the other side of the Gallery up until that moment)--they were part of this group from Maine. They also added to the mix, two barking dogs and a boom box w/ music and smoking pot. This was a THURSDAY.

I could have been cool w/ it if they had just said, look, we have 20 people doing this route, but you can work in after this next person comes down.

Sunday at Roadside (always a zoo, no problem). A friend of mine asked the group on Way up Yonder how many were still in line to go. The girl gave an irritated look and said, "We have a lot of people, so it's gonna be a while." and went back to what she was doing --still not answering the question so that others could plan their wait.

Manners people. I think the appropriate response is something like. Oh, sorry we are monopolizing everything. Feel free to work in on any of these routes and go ahead and pull a rope if it is hanging on a route and nobody's climbing it.

How about we come up with some basic rules of etiquette and spread them around. Like 3 basic rules.

If no one is on the route, pull their rope and trail it when the belayer goes.