Recovery: What am I missing?

[twan]

Saying that cardio doesn't get you a single thing when applied to climbing imo is just wrong.

You run or exercise all winter and I'll train lightly and come spring we'll put that statement to the test.

[pkananen]

Saying that cardio doesn't get you a single thing when applied to climbing imo is just wrong.

You run or exercise all winter and I'll train lightly and come spring we'll put that statement to the test.

Except that what he said and what you think he said are two different things. He isn't saying cardio substitutes for climbing training, but that some cardio in addition to climbing will be beneficial. And beneficial doesn't mean that you'll climb harder.

[JR]

Climbers that climb better than me don't take a month off twice a year.

Climbers that climb better than me don't take a month off because their elbow or finger is sore.

Climbers that climb better than me don't run to improve their climbing.

Climbers that climb better than me think that climbing at the Red is relatively low impact.

[SCIN]

But isn't the secret for doing Action Directe running a 4 minute mile? Maybe there IS a connection!?

[chriss]

I agree with Lateralus that cardio is very important. Not everyone is naturally fit - I assume ray and Kris are. It is hard to argue that being lighter and having a high level of cardiovascular fitness can hurt your climbing. It is a fine line though, to much cardio will hurt your recovery time. When I am running consistently I tend to perform better on the RRG jug hauls. For me, climbing alone is not enough to maintain cardiovascular fitness or my desired climbing weight.

I would think that a week off would be enough. A full month off seems very excessive.

[Meadows]

Long, slow climbing is great, but that's not a luxury for everyone. I suggest cardio as a supplement to climbing or substitute when climbing is not an option (weather, injured). Extra punch in the fitness. I run every other day and feel that I have great seasons, but I do adjust frequency and intensity during the climbing season.

What exact studies are you discussing?

[512OW]

Agreed that it promotes fitness, and when there is no climbing to be done, it can't harm your climbing. I just don't believe it is at all beneficial for that month off to train cardio, but stop climbing, when it is climbing you seek to improve at.

Don't remember specifics on the studies... one was by Matthew Wright. Here's a direct quote citing him, though I can't find the study online.

"Sports scientist Matthew Wright estimates that the aerobic benefits that could be derived from 100 hours of endurance running might translate into the equivalent effect of 10 hours of endurance training for cycling. So why not just get on the cycle for ten hours? The carryover of cycling to running is even weaker, because running is a complex activity that relies to a much greater extent on skills of coordination, and bicycling is a much simpler activity. For example, consider Lance Armstrong, the greatest biker of all time and co-owner of the highest VO2max ever measured. He recently completed a marathon in about three hours – an excellent time for an amateur, but nowhere near where his performance would be if his aerobic capacity from cycling had a strong carryover to running. He said the race was one of the hardest things he ever did."

[pkananen]

More thoughts on this mythical month off from Steve Edwards: http://steve-edwards.blogspot.com/2010/ ... nt-to.html Of course, Steve is a multi-sport athlete, but he's also one who climbs 5.13+.

[Meadows]

This quote is definitely right - Lance didn't run as well as he bikes. But, he did run very well for an amateur. Could that be his fitness level was already there from biking? I don't think he's dedicated to running either so we may never see his potential - and his peak years for cardio fitness were spent on the bike.

But I believe there is a difference between whether an activity translates to another or whether it gives one a boost. Personally, biking has helped my running and I've seen the benefits in comparison to others that running has had on my biking. But I couldn't expect to spend months on a bike and then attempt to PR in a 5K.

[whatahutch]

For the last three years I have taken a month off (or more). In 2008 I took a month off in the summer for a residency abroad, the same in 2009. This past year I took about four months off after my son was born. I just took a month long break and got back on the plastic this Saturday.

I fully believe it helps. I believe the four months off was hard, and probably set me back, but the other months did nothing like that.

In 2008 I took my break about two weeks before the 4th of July and a two weeks after that. If you look at my spray you will see that in that spring I sent two 11s. Air-ride Equipped and Fuzzy (which was really on TR). That fall my numbers were not as high, but I was more consistent on high 10s. That spring there were less consistency to my numbers. They look more like a vertical line than a pyramid. My fall looked like a pyramid. If you understand the pyramid philosophy then it should say that I had the ability to send low 12s. I didn't because I focused on that stupid line (shooting for a couple 12s and skipping 11s. I think that is called the Red-Point Twinkie Theory).

2009 was my most productive year. I was consistent with onsighting and redpointing low 11s. I trained consistently that winter on a treadwall and really started crushing that spring and early summer. On my 26th birthday I got my first 12 on TR (Ro). I took a month off during the same time of the year I took off in 2008. I came back and had a hard time on 8s and 9s (note that I did not even touch plastic and came out to the Red) on my first day back. I trained hard for a short few months in the hopes of being able to maintain a little strength knowing I was going to take some time off after my son was born.

I took four months off and did touch some plastic during that time but very rarely. My first hard day out in 2010 my buddy sent me up 10a, 11a, 11b, 12a. it was a day that before those four months off I would have done fine, even if I hadn't got the 12. I didn't get anything besides the 10 (Oompa). However, I started training again. I didn't get to make it to the Red as much as prior years (due to moving and family responsibility), but I was consistently strong. I sent my first 12a on lead this fall. In my training sessions I was probably doing 12b. (I train mostly by myself so I can't say for sure; I was putting mileage on my bouldering wall linking multiple V2,V3, and V4s together in the same sequence). In short I was the strongest I have ever been this fall.

My progression has dips, especially at the four month spot. However, I am still progressing and have a long long term goal of climbing 13a/b by the time I am 35. I know my body has the capability, and all I have to do is put the time and patience into it. (I also plan on taking my month breaks during the winter so that I am maximizing my potential by the following fall, that is one reason why I just took mine).

My short term goal is one 12b for 2011, and multiple 12as. I know that my one month breaks did nothing but help me. I know that if I had not taken those four months off that my goal for 2011 would have been the goal for this last fall. I know that my progression would have been a little more curved and less wavy. However, I am still progressing.