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karmic retribution is a great line but I didn't think it was hard and I suck at slab. I'm putting in a vote for night moves. Damn that route! I thought Manifest Destiny was way easier. G-man is a tough one.

climb2core wrote:Possum Lips.... it has been so long since I was on it, but I remember never wanting to get on it again.

Damn right. I thought that sucker was harder than HEYYELL

Barnacle Ben wrote:+1 for Karmic Retribution at 10c. That thing was a mindfuck. Great line though.

Yeah, at it's grade, it's very tough. A very difficult read and onsight, didn't stick it first go. Funky but a good line all the same.

Granite 10a tops (except the bolts are where you want them on KR).

dustonian wrote:Granite 10a tops (except the bolts are where you want them on KR).

But isn't that kind of like saying 'if your aunt had a dick, she'd be your uncle'?

If the line were on real coarse granite, sure it'd be 10a. But if it were on alpine granite it'd be harder by a mile. Or like saying 'all the routes at the Red would be easy if they weren't so steep.' Well, they are steep, and they're not that easy. At least for me.

I was also going to say it would climb like 10a on boulder canyon granite but would have a guidebook rating of 11b. I probably have the wrong audience for that remark though.

Barnacle Ben wrote:I was also going to say it would climb like 10a on boulder canyon granite but would have a guidebook rating of 11b. I probably have the wrong audience for that remark though.

no, not at all. i personally find the cross-regional/cross-rock/cross-style/multi-temporal/pan-dimensional/cross-grading to be really helpful when parsing out the already-fuzzy world of red river grading. my guidebook notes for Ro Shampo, for instance, look like so:

Ro Shampo---
Guidebook: 12a
1997: 11b
8a: soft
hp40: v1
hp40 in 2002: v6
if it were limestone: 12d


and so on and so forth. it might seem like overkill, but i have total objective recall of every climbing event i've ever experienced... so it's really no hassle.

tbwilsonky wrote:
no, not at all. i personally find the cross-regional/cross-rock/cross-style/multi-temporal/pan-dimensional/cross-grading to be really helpful when parsing out the already-fuzzy world of red river grading. my guidebook notes for Ro Shampo, for instance, look like so:

Ro Shampo---
Guidebook: 12a
1997: 11b
8a: soft
hp40: v1
hp40 in 2002: v6
if it were limestone: 12d


and so on and so forth. it might seem like overkill, but i have total objective recall of every climbing event i've ever experienced... so it's really no hassle.

Are you saying Ro was 11b in the 1997 guidebook? Also, what is the hp40:v1 hp40 in 2002:v6 a reference to?

I'm just saying if the same moves were in Yosemite, Toulumne, New Hampshire, Squamish, or even the Gunks or Adirondacks (not granite of course), they would rate something like Karmic Ret. 10a or even "9+"... but whatever, it is fun route regardless.

He is stating that Ro would get an hp40 grade of V1, but in 2002 in hp40 it would be graded V6. He is saying that everything in HP40 was significantly down graded over the years, as it was inflated previously. amiright?