RRC Archives

GWG wrote: As an example, a leader on a difficult overhanging route is above his last clip, makes a move and comes off, his experienced belayer will provide some slack in order to not slingshot the climber back into the wall. While doing so, he lowers him down to the deck in one smooth motion.

So you're saying that as the leader is falling, the belayer begins to let rope slide through his/her hand, in effect "lowering" the climber, in order to give a soft catch?

You've got to be kidding me. Really, tell me this is a joke. There is absolutely NO WAY that A) that is safe, and B) it should ever be taught or performed by ANYONE.

Why in the hell would it be alright to feed slack out AS SOMEONE IS FALLING? That is the absolute WRONG way to give a soft catch. When you see a climber falling, your immediate action should be to lock off the brake end of the rope. You give a soft catch by jumping slightly at the point in time where the rope becomes taught. As you go up, the climber goes down and their kinetic energy is dissipated via friction in the system. There's probably still a swing in toward the wall, but it won't be a s forceful as a static belay.

I'm sure in the gym they require you to anchor to the floor, which prevents you from giving a proper dynamic belay. So two things need to happen
1) the gym needs to stop forcing people to anchor to the floor. This gives gumbies the impression that they HAVE to anchor always, even outside. Often times, this is incorrect. Yes, gyms do this because their climbs are so short, a dynamic belay would cause the climber to deck from anything other than the anchors, but they should instead, choose to educate climbers how to decide whether to anchor, when to give a soft catch, etc.
2) People need to stop this "feeding slack" horse sh1t.

DHB wrote:

GWG wrote: As an example, a leader on a difficult overhanging route is above his last clip, makes a move and comes off, his experienced belayer will provide some slack in order to not slingshot the climber back into the wall. While doing so, he lowers him down to the deck in one smooth motion.

So you're saying that as the leader is falling, the belayer begins to let rope slide through his/her hand, in effect "lowering" the climber, in order to give a soft catch?

You've got to be kidding me. Really, tell me this is a joke. There is absolutely NO WAY that A) that is safe, and B) it should ever be taught or performed by ANYONE.

Why in the hell would it be alright to feed slack out AS SOMEONE IS FALLING? That is the absolute WRONG way to give a soft catch. When you see a climber falling, your immediate action should be to lock off the brake end of the rope. You give a soft catch by jumping slightly at the point in time where the rope becomes taught. As you go up, the climber goes down and their kinetic energy is dissipated via friction in the system. There's probably still a swing in toward the wall, but it won't be a s forceful as a static belay.

I'm sure in the gym they require you to anchor to the floor, which prevents you from giving a proper dynamic belay. So two things need to happen
1) the gym needs to stop forcing people to anchor to the floor. This gives gumbies the impression that they HAVE to anchor always, even outside. Often times, this is incorrect. Yes, gyms do this because their climbs are so short, a dynamic belay would cause the climber to deck from anything other than the anchors, but they should instead, choose to educate climbers how to decide whether to anchor, when to give a soft catch, etc.
2) People need to stop this "feeding slack" horse sh1t.

I think you may have misinterpreted what he was describing... From how I took it, I think he meant that the belayer would allow some extra rope (thus, extra fall time) to buffer the fall against a static catch. A static catch would sling a climber directly into the wall, breaking ankles. And, yes, I agree with you that anchoring into the floor while lead belaying is typically unwise. I've never seen a gym enforce something like that, though.

I sure hope that's what he meant

I know the climber, the belayer, and the group of people they were with at Military. They are all experienced climbers and are very knowledgable and I climb with them all often. I understand that the accident was caused because of a mistake of the belayer but can we give it a rest with bashing. The couple is still coping with the loss of Pepper and trauma of the events from the weekend. I am thankful that the climber came out of this accident with only a broken Talus bone. This could have been much, much worse. Pepper was a cutie and will be missed but the events of this weekend are something to learn from, not to gossip rudely about. Please be genuine and polite with your comments on here and be safe when your outside enjoying everything that nature has to offer.

Mistakes are our best teachers and I hope the friends of this gal help her on that path.

If anyone wants to use an auto-locker and finds the grigri too challenging, let me introduce you to the Faders SUM: two pinch points to really grip the rope and you don't hold down the cam to feed slack. For those experienced with a grigri, the transition is easy and it's just easier to learn and use. It does take specific biners, as some are too thick and can lock in there. Petzl Williams works fine in mine and Faders does make a specific biner for it. Do use the rubber stopper and don't forget to RTFM (read the f-ing manuel).

I hate the Sum!

OK, but is there a reason other than being accustomed to the Gri?

the Gri? sounds like the cool kids club again:)

if the climber and belayert have been reading this, it might bevery beneficial to the climbing community as a whole, for them to give their version of the incident.

Double ropes. Redundant belayers. Hang your own draws. It's the only way to be safe out there.

Meadows wrote:OK, but is there a reason other than being accustomed to the Gri?

I don't know, I never liked that little plastic release button...it seems too easy to break or get stuck against something and stay open. But then, I was more thinking about application to stunts for TV and theater with costumes on etc.... paranoid delusions aside, I'm sure it's just fine for climbing.