RRC Archives

clev(er), never said it was for your safety, never said i was part of the coaliton, but if some people want to bash them that's fine. i have the same right to say my side of how i see them. i just don't see the elitism you speak of. maybe i'm just one of the cool kids as you like to see it. maybe you have been at the trail days, maybe you haven't, maybe you donate and maybe you don't, maybe you are a positive role model and then again you may not be. only you know that but if you are part of the community long enough you should be known in some way; weather for a little, a lot, helping, or fucking it up for everyone.
the people on the BOD are mostly folks that have been aroiund, paid some dues, and done things for the CC; but doing that is for the greater good. i agree 100% with how the coalition USED to be, does it still have some of those flaws, sure but is this new CC trying to get away from that??
bill wouldn't be on here, (with the rest of the great boys and girls of the CC) asking for your's, mine, and any other person with access to this waste of work times opinion.

we've said our pieces, all of the opinions here are valid and i'm sure all of them have been mulled over and as new blood comes into the CC, yours, mine, others; we shall see the CC we want to see.

be safe and hope the finger heals.

KD I know you know better than that. Have you been away long enough to completely forget this stuff? There are quite a few of us that spend a lot of time taking care of and developing this place, many of which are not in Team Suck or on the BOD. Team Suck is NOT RRGCC. Bolt Maintenance is not a major strategy point in our organization and probably never will be. Lord knows we're barely keeping our heads above water as it is.

Thanks for your support everyone! We will be missing the superbowl this weekend for another "Closed" meeting at Torrent Saturday (which starts at 5 and everyone's invited).

Yes, we will have an executive meeting later to go over internal business (responsibilities/financials/bylaw revisions, etc.) but I promise you most of the BOD doesn't even want to be there for that.

Personally I give us B-, but last year was a C and I hope we get better every year.

wow, a lot can be said over a weekend.


Captain static said (sorry dont quite know how to use the quote feature):
In regards to this comment I want to make an important distinction. The RRGCC is dedicated to maintaining access to climbing areas NOT maintaining individual routes. None of our efforts or funds raised go towards maintaining fixed gear. However, what is kind of oxymoronic is that the primary metric of our success is the number of open routes. In 2008 the number of routes open in the "Southern Region" was 516. By the end of 2009 the number of open routes in the "Southern Region" was 550, an increase of 34 routes. I guess my point is that, although the RRGCC does not concern itself with route development, we do work to create conditions under which route development can occur.

I guess I was trying to point to the fact that while I know the RRGCC does not do route maintenence, it is concerned with access. The point being that while replacing the bolts is not part of the job the results that occur when routes are not maintained may end up in the lap of the RRGCC. That result being loss of access as a result of an increase in injury and/or danger. And while I am not suggesting the board go out and start hand drilling all routes everywhere, or even any routes at all, I do understand that the RRGCC is the best tool our community has for gathering like minded folks to do good. I guess I was looking for the possibility of some RRGCC resources/attention going towards organization of events that could maintain what we have at keeping this maintenence top of mind. Sorry if this is not in the job description, and if I opened my mouth without understanding what it is you do. I did not read your comment as anything but genuine by the way, but I would look forward to hearing more from you all, maybe at a gym in louisville or a sunday trail day?

Wow- 5 pages of comments and only the most occasional jackassery- someone must have touched a nerve...

From what I've seen here so far, and my experience with similar groups elsewhere in the US, the RRGCC is holding its own as a model for how a citizen-based climbing advocacy group should work.

I'm constantly impressed with the effort the climbing community as a whole here has made to establish its presence and accomplish goals. The JATD trail days, informal trail work, willingness to pick up other people's trash, and the helpful, and overall generous nature of many of the climbers in the Red have done a lot to advance the ideals you've claimed you wanted to promote, and the character of person many of you personify is an inspiration to the thousands of people who visit the Red each year.

That's not to say the RRGCC doesn't have its flaws, because it does. Small groups leading/guiding a larger group will almost inevitably lead to perceptions of cliques and elitism, no matter how unfounded, and large-scale interaction between groups of people will almost always result in at least some bashed egos and ruffled feathers. What we choose to take to heart from the interactions is our own choice.

For those who have had a bad experience, take the time to actually send a PM to one or two of the people on the current board and voice your opinion. Most of these guys are pretty down to Earth, and legitimately do want to help out.

On the other side of the coin, I would put it to task for those board members to honestly seek to listen to and respond to those criticisms you do receive. Regardless of whether or not they voted for you, they are still your constituents, you still represent them, and they will respect you even more if they see their words reflected in your actions.

As for specific changes/goals-

1) I really would like to see more/smaller trail days throughout the year. There are a lot of people in the area who can't make it to one of the larger events, but who still want to help out. The occasional Sunday event would also be nice for those of us who work Saturdays (we do exist)

2) For the same reasons as above, the meetings at Torrent are nice, but aren't exactly convenient for those of us who don't live off of exit 33 (i.e., nearly all of us). Meetings in Lex/ Louie/ Cincy on occasion would really help get those of us what aren't available to drive 2 hrs for a meeting involved...

3) The road/ access to the PMRP is a really big deal, and can be a major hindrance to access in the southern region. I understand that paving a road can involve costs in the 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars, but there were a lot of climbers at this last years' Rocktoberfest who couldn't even climb at the area the festival was being held to pay for, due to the rain. This is clearly a difficult, long-term goal, but the payoff could be huge. Perhaps talks/negotiations with Charmaine Oil? As an added benefit, the sooner we can establish ourselves as allies of Charmaine, the sooner we both can see tangible benefits- Charmaine gets a large group of vocal, environmentally-conscious advocates, and we get better chances of access to areas like Arena, Oil Crack, and who knows what else that they've stumbled upon that we haven't...

In short, I think so far the RRGCC has been great, and with a little more work, it could become unstoppable.

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Jay wrote:
3) The road/ access to the PMRP is a really big deal, and can be a major hindrance to access in the southern region. I understand that paving a road can involve costs in the 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars, but there were a lot of climbers at this last years' Rocktoberfest who couldn't even climb at the area the festival was being held to pay for, due to the rain. This is clearly a difficult, long-term goal, but the payoff could be huge......

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i hate to think that there are people who don't contribute because they don't know how to drive, which is why i don't think paving the road should be anywhere on the rrgcc to do list. the road wouldn't be nearly so bad if there weren't so many people who don't know how to drive on gravel (CLUE: like your grandmother)

MAYBE, a lawn tractor with grading attachment could be rented and have a modified 'trail' day. Paving that road is throwing away money.

and i don't know where these ideas of the bod being exclusive or elitist or whatever come from. i'm as grumpy, mean, ugly, and bitter as i can be and still those people are nice to me. maybe that's their trick.

I agree about the road, but since that is a county road I think we would be "working" with the local government to get that done. I would think between Charmane's economic interests and the climbers benefit to tourism getting this road paved would at least be considered by the county officials. My guess is there being a poor area and all there is just isn't money to get it done.

Just as a point of clarification, Charmane sold there wells in the PMRP to Triad. The RRGCC is working closely with Triad and has established some very positive relations from the beginning.

cliftongifford wrote:

Jay wrote: 3) The road/ access to the PMRP is a really big deal, and can be a major hindrance to access in the southern region. I understand that paving a road can involve costs in the 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars, but there were a lot of climbers at this last years' Rocktoberfest who couldn't even climb at the area the festival was being held to pay for, due to the rain. This is clearly a difficult, long-term goal, but the payoff could be huge......
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A lot of people think it's crazy to donate money for a place they can't even access without a 4wd.

On the other hand some folks get in there w/ compact cars and w/o 4x4. Others sack up and walk. Two friends and I got in and out of the PMRP w/ a Prius in 2006. At one point 2 of us were pushing.

Sure, you can get in and out of there with a Prius if need be, but not without a lot of pushing, backed up traffic, f-ed up cars, and related jackassery. In the long run I don't think it is helping access for the one section of the hill to be getting so screwed over every season. You can say, "you should learn how to drive on the hill" or whatever, but that doesn't really solve the problem. It does cause traffic on busy weekends and then there are people parking at the top of the hill to avoid screwing up their cars and causing a traffic backup at the end of the day. In the long run, it seems worth it to pave the hill--not the whole road--just that 150' section that gets messed up on rainy days. I think it would help smooth things over with Triad, ease a lot of potential problems like traffic and parking on top, and in the end make a lot of $-donating RRGCC members happy to spare their mufflers for another day. How much would it cost to pay 150-200' of hill anyway? No really, I'm curious.