RRC Archives

Izzy wrote:Caribe, Are you saying that YOU believe it to be a FACT that Jesus never really existed? If so then that would be an act of faith, because it can't be proven or disproven. Faith is the foundation of religion, not science or history.

[] Jesus has all the characteristics of a myth. Aspects of his life match other myths.
[] Lending credence to Jesus means that I must lend credence to a laundry list of similar folkloric figures.
[] There are acts that Jesus supposedly did that lie outside of any human experience, for example expelling demons from a man and sending them into a herd of swine that eventually all ran off a cliff. Admitting Jesus means admitting demons and the possibility that demons could possess a herd of swine.
[] Since Jesus is connected to a lineage all the way back to Adam, admitting JC means that I need to wrestle with the biblical creation story versus the vast weight of evidence carried by fields of study from plate tectonics to biological evolution.
[] I guess I don't find your statement rational. Jesus is/ was mostly likely a myth without the stretching the imagination too far.
[] No birthday, no death date, no evidence outside the bible, yet his lineage back to the first human is known, wine into water, raising the dead, and the fact that he had a blue ox named Babe.

Again, accepting the reality of a mythical Jesus does not diminish Christian philosophy. The ethos and the direction of Christ can still guide your life down a profitable path. However, all indications are that Christ was probably never here.

caribe, that is the opinion of many people. but like was mentioned before, religion is based on faith, not fact. Jesus certainly possessed many characteristics and abilities that are hard to grasp, or even believe. However, if it were easy to believe, and Jesus was still walking amongst us, performing miracles on CNN, and hosting his own talk show, then there would be no need for faith anymore.

I know it isn't easy to believe, trust me most people think I am nuts. I have a heavy background in science and work as a chemist, but I know that Jesus Christ was a real person, and that my religion is also real. If anything my background in science has reaffirmed those beliefs even more.

People like you will probably never believe, it is very hard to grasp these concepts and believe they are true, especially as one gets older. But maybe at least you would agree that many of the teachings of Jesus, whether he ever existed or not, are good guidelines to live your life by.

Sorry, mandatory big lebowski reference:

demons possess swine? let's not make this personal caribe...

do birthdate? pffft...Dec 25th

no death date....pfffft....friday before Easter, every year....

gripster wrote:People like you will probably never believe, it is very hard to grasp these concepts and believe they are true, especially as one gets older. But maybe at least you would agree that many of the teachings of Jesus, whether he ever existed or not, are good guidelines to live your life by.

Wow you must have read the last line of my last post or something.
[] The rest of your post basically says that Christianity is part of your culture no matter what. This is basically what I would get from a Hindu or a Muslim in a different land. I would also concede to them that aspects of their religion could be key to them living a better life. In this regard I do not discriminate between these religious cultures. I, on the other hand, have not found the need for any of these faiths. To each his/her own and peace and love.
[] The statement that I made had to be made because it is far from a fact that JC was actually here and not only a folkloric figure, like Paul Bunyan.

pigsteak wrote:birthdate? pffft...Dec 25th

This simply can not be and jive with other aspects of most of the stories in the gospels.

pigsteak wrote: no death date....pfffft....friday before Easter, every year....

Well, for quite a few it was Nisan 14, not for all though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartodecimanism

Coming to the new understanding that what you once believed to be fact is all a myth is a very painful experience that most people refuse to go through.

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;
None but ourselves can free our minds." - Bob Marley

I don't like to think of it as a refusal to except something that I have been taught my whole life. I was raised as as christian, and then in my early 20's i got away from my religion. 4 years later I am back on the train, this time I have decided for myself to believe. Is it really that hard to understand that I actually believe Jesus Christ was a real person? That is my faith, I am not sure if you are trying to change my beliefs, I can't understand why you would want to do that?

Luckily Jesus warned his followers that many people would persecute christians, and try to convince us we are wrong, crazy, or just stupid for believing. Thank you all for confirming yet another point my God made. It is funny you would say you don't discriminate against other religions because I haven't heard one person say anything about Buddha, Ganesh, or any other religious deity. The Eastern religions seem to fall into the "cool" category of religion. I have met lots of people who say "well, i am not a practicing Buddhist, but I basically follow the teachings" after taking one Eastern religion class in college. In my experience people just do not persecute any other religions like they persecute Jews and Christians.

It's Ok, like I said, we were all warned that would happen, so the truly faithful are not effected by these kinds of comments. So you can refer to my God to be like Paul Bunyan, Pippie Longstocking, Santa Clause or any other mythological character you can come up with. You can call me stupid, or crazy for believing that a human could actually raise the dead and cure disease. But, I will always believe. Call it culture, faith, refusal to except reality, I have heard them all. I have had people laugh in my face, lose respect for me, and even stop talking to me all together because of my faith. They can't believe someone like me (I must be an unassuming christian?) could actually believe these lies and nonsense. Well, I do, I always will, and you can either like me or hate me for it.

I do promise that I will never preach to you or try to convert you to my religion, but I will gladly talk to anyone who wants to learn more about my beliefs. Thats just how I roll. I hope people might believe that not all christians are crazy bible thumpers.

For the record, I think Jesus was more of a pacifist, and I do not think he would kick anyone in the nuts. But if he did, man I bet it would really, really suck.

I'm laughing right now! hahahaha.

Gripster, it's not "hip" to be Christian nowadays.