again, this begs the other question already posed. the newly bolted line had been there, unbolted for decades..now all of the sudden, some shiny bolts appear, and it becomes community property? why didn't those who just "HAVE" to climb it go bolt it before now?Shamis wrote:I still think red tagging is lame. I was repulsed by the whole concept the first time I learned what it was.
Now I think it is reasonable for somebody to tag a route for a week or two, but much more than that seems ridiculous to me.
Also, a good solution to the problem: if you think that it shouldn't matter who gets the FA, then just climb the route and don't tell anybody. Problem solved (unless of course you get stabbed).
Closing Routes (once again)
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
Perhaps its their first time at the crag? who knows? who cares? Just go climb.pigsteak wrote:again, this begs the other question already posed. the newly bolted line had been there, unbolted for decades..now all of the sudden, some shiny bolts appear, and it becomes community property? why didn't those who just "HAVE" to climb it go bolt it before now?Shamis wrote:I still think red tagging is lame. I was repulsed by the whole concept the first time I learned what it was.
Now I think it is reasonable for somebody to tag a route for a week or two, but much more than that seems ridiculous to me.
Also, a good solution to the problem: if you think that it shouldn't matter who gets the FA, then just climb the route and don't tell anybody. Problem solved (unless of course you get stabbed).
There are two kinds of people out there I feel deserve my respect.....
The people that preserve my climbing areas.
The people that develop my climbing areas.
If Rick & Liz or Dr. Bob or any other landowner asks you to do something on their property, why wouldn't you?
If the person that equipped a (or likely many) routes for my enjoyment asks me for something, why wouldn't I do it?
A red tag is a simple request from someone who's more than likely done their fair share for your enjoyment. I am confused as to why you wouldn't respect that request. There are some exceptions I guess but I'd err on the side of honoring those expectations.
There have been and will always be clear examples of people that don't honor the standards but I for one do not want to be that guy.
The people that preserve my climbing areas.
The people that develop my climbing areas.
If Rick & Liz or Dr. Bob or any other landowner asks you to do something on their property, why wouldn't you?
If the person that equipped a (or likely many) routes for my enjoyment asks me for something, why wouldn't I do it?
A red tag is a simple request from someone who's more than likely done their fair share for your enjoyment. I am confused as to why you wouldn't respect that request. There are some exceptions I guess but I'd err on the side of honoring those expectations.
There have been and will always be clear examples of people that don't honor the standards but I for one do not want to be that guy.
Shamis wrote:Perhaps its their first time at the crag? who knows? who cares? Just go climb.pigsteak wrote:again, this begs the other question already posed. the newly bolted line had been there, unbolted for decades..now all of the sudden, some shiny bolts appear, and it becomes community property? why didn't those who just "HAVE" to climb it go bolt it before now?Shamis wrote:I still think red tagging is lame. I was repulsed by the whole concept the first time I learned what it was.
Now I think it is reasonable for somebody to tag a route for a week or two, but much more than that seems ridiculous to me.
Also, a good solution to the problem: if you think that it shouldn't matter who gets the FA, then just climb the route and don't tell anybody. Problem solved (unless of course you get stabbed).
You are just lame, much like all the other poachers / poacher wanna be's. No respect, no honor, just entitlement like spoiled ass kids. Seriously, fuck all you'all. It is a pain in the ass to bolt a route and I am sooooo sorry you have to wait a while to climb it, because there are only a thousand or so other routes out there to do while you wait.
"There is no secret ingredient"
Po, the kung fu panda
Po, the kung fu panda
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anticlmber
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why not just put a pad lock or two ( or remove the first few bolts) to keep peeps off?? sucks to have to do that but it works.
first time at a crag is a lame ass excuse. i knew what a red tag was for meant before coming out. i didn't agree 100% but i RESPECTED it. after several years (scar tissue at the zoo was one 4years maybe) i would be more than happy to snake a route.
as charlie wes pigfuck and the rest said, why wouldnt you respect someone else's simple wish. don't make your selfish endeavor even more selfish than it already is.
polesmokers
first time at a crag is a lame ass excuse. i knew what a red tag was for meant before coming out. i didn't agree 100% but i RESPECTED it. after several years (scar tissue at the zoo was one 4years maybe) i would be more than happy to snake a route.
as charlie wes pigfuck and the rest said, why wouldnt you respect someone else's simple wish. don't make your selfish endeavor even more selfish than it already is.
polesmokers
Like me on facebook but hate me in real life
I would never sneak onto someone's route, that seems ridiculous. Also, climbing to the anchors then jumping off to somehow "preserve" the route for the intended FA is also silly.
However, one thing to keep in mind is that not everyone around here is "in the know" enough to get access to cliffs prior to their opening in order to FA routes of thier own. I have been climbing in the Red for 4-5 years and I have yet to know of a crag before it's published here. So, for those in the know to rush out to a cliff and pump it full of bolts is awesome (for me). But when the cliff opens and your standing below what is probably the best line at the cliff and it's within your ability and you aren't "allowed" to get on it, it has to be annoying. I have yet to experience this personally , but I have heard others frustrations before. I have ~1500 routes to do before I am worried about a red tag. But for those few that have done *most of what is within their ability, the red tag hanging on a route forever when they know it's in their ability is probably annoying.
I think the one year clock seems fair. It takes most of the reasons that someone couldn't get to it out of the equation. A year means at least 4 months of prime conditions. If it doesn't go in that timeframe, it's not going to go.
The comment above doesn't take into account new lines at exisiting cliffs. That's a whole other story. Or squeezejobs, variations, extensions, etc, etc...
The two routes where I'm on the FA list are when I belayed the FA and from a trail day. So really, I have no skin in this game. I would probably beat someones ass who snaked a route from me. However, if I got an email from someone asking if they could send something I equipped (and could do so immediately) I would probably come off of it. Just one dudes opinion.
Like some others said earlier though... thank you for the efforts. I wish we were more appreciative.
However, one thing to keep in mind is that not everyone around here is "in the know" enough to get access to cliffs prior to their opening in order to FA routes of thier own. I have been climbing in the Red for 4-5 years and I have yet to know of a crag before it's published here. So, for those in the know to rush out to a cliff and pump it full of bolts is awesome (for me). But when the cliff opens and your standing below what is probably the best line at the cliff and it's within your ability and you aren't "allowed" to get on it, it has to be annoying. I have yet to experience this personally , but I have heard others frustrations before. I have ~1500 routes to do before I am worried about a red tag. But for those few that have done *most of what is within their ability, the red tag hanging on a route forever when they know it's in their ability is probably annoying.
I think the one year clock seems fair. It takes most of the reasons that someone couldn't get to it out of the equation. A year means at least 4 months of prime conditions. If it doesn't go in that timeframe, it's not going to go.
The comment above doesn't take into account new lines at exisiting cliffs. That's a whole other story. Or squeezejobs, variations, extensions, etc, etc...
The two routes where I'm on the FA list are when I belayed the FA and from a trail day. So really, I have no skin in this game. I would probably beat someones ass who snaked a route from me. However, if I got an email from someone asking if they could send something I equipped (and could do so immediately) I would probably come off of it. Just one dudes opinion.
Like some others said earlier though... thank you for the efforts. I wish we were more appreciative.