Personal Climbing Renascence, must you be born again?

[JR]

much of this talk is completely against my approach right now. i hate the idea of getting on a route that I have no chance of doing. I hate falling my way up a route that I don't have business being on. Maybe it's b/c when i see people doing that i think "what are they trying to prove? they have no hope of doing that route. who are they trying to show off to, they look like a freaking idiot." so, maybe I need to stop being such an arrogant shit head and change my perspective on things.

This reminds me of a quote I read recently. It was by Cooper Roberts. A film maker that was recording Chris Sharma's attempts at Jumbo Love. Cooper thought Chris had no chance. Later he apologized.

[JR]

Why should climbers spend an inordinate amount of time on routes they can't send? Thats what boulders are for...

Maybe you said this in jest but..

How is throwing yourself at sections of a route that you may not be able to climb in its entirety different from bouldering? Aside from the rope, harness, etc.

[captain static]

Thanks for your post JR. For a minute I thought this thread was headed into the gutter.

[512OW]

Why should climbers spend an inordinate amount of time on routes they can't send? Thats what boulders are for...

Maybe you said this in jest but..

How is throwing yourself at sections of a route that you may not be able to climb in its entirety different from bouldering? Aside from the rope, harness, etc.

Time and efficiency. It takes 15 seconds to try a boulder problem. It could take half an hour just to get to the hard moves of a route, if its way over your head. Thats half an hour for you... half an hour for your belayer. Once you're there, you're far more spent than if you had just tried the same difficulty of moves on the ground. Not to mention jugging or boinking back up when you fall. Alot of energy is wasted just getting back on the wall. Thats energy that could be used refining your movement.

In an average day, I'd say you can put real work into MAYBE 3 or 4 hard routes. If bouldering, you can try the cruxes of 20 routes.

[SCIN]

Why should climbers spend an inordinate amount of time on routes they can't send? Thats what boulders are for...

Maybe you said this in jest but..

How is throwing yourself at sections of a route that you may not be able to climb in its entirety different from bouldering? Aside from the rope, harness, etc.

Time and efficiency. It takes 15 seconds to try a boulder problem. It could take half an hour just to get to the hard moves of a route, if its way over your head. Thats half an hour for you... half an hour for your belayer. Once you're there, you're far more spent than if you had just tried the same difficulty of moves on the ground. Not to mention jugging or boinking back up when you fall. Alot of energy is wasted just getting back on the wall. Thats energy that could be used refining your movement.

In an average day, I'd say you can put real work into MAYBE 3 or 4 hard routes. If bouldering, you can try the cruxes of 20 routes.

On some routes, with really tough (bouldery) moves, I need to spend time flailing before I can start to adapt to the point where they feel possible. For example, White Man's Overbite. Got on it the first time and I had a hard time even hanging on the holds . But (so I've heard) the more you get on it body positioning and muscle memory for the moves starts to fall into place and before you know it you're one hanging it. If you don't continue trying on really bouldery routes then you will never figure them out enough to send them. I think it's more than just "getting stronger" if it's a super bouldery line at your peak.

For routes like this, I don't even think bouldering in the gym can train me up to the point of sending quickly. The holds are really small, slopey, and feet and body positioning are critical. I need to be on the route to find the beta and adapt to the movement.

There aren't many lines like this in the Red because they're more endurance oriented but in the Frankenjura for example I can easily see spending inordinate amounts of time on routes which you may possibly never send but there is a chance you will.

[512OW]

Maybe you said this in jest but..

How is throwing yourself at sections of a route that you may not be able to climb in its entirety different from bouldering? Aside from the rope, harness, etc.

Time and efficiency. It takes 15 seconds to try a boulder problem. It could take half an hour just to get to the hard moves of a route, if its way over your head. Thats half an hour for you... half an hour for your belayer. Once you're there, you're far more spent than if you had just tried the same difficulty of moves on the ground. Not to mention jugging or boinking back up when you fall. Alot of energy is wasted just getting back on the wall. Thats energy that could be used refining your movement.

In an average day, I'd say you can put real work into MAYBE 3 or 4 hard routes. If bouldering, you can try the cruxes of 20 routes.

On some routes, with really tough (bouldery) moves, I need to spend time flailing before I can start to adapt to the point where they feel possible. For example, White Man's Overbite. Got on it the first time and I had a hard time even hanging on the holds . But (so I've heard) the more you get on it body positioning and muscle memory for the moves starts to fall into place and before you know it you're one hanging it. If you don't continue trying on really bouldery routes then you will never figure them out enough to send them. I think it's more than just "getting stronger" if it's a super bouldery line at your peak.

For routes like this, I don't even think bouldering in the gym can train me up to the point of sending quickly. The holds are really small, slopey, and feet and body positioning are critical. I need to be on the route to find the beta and adapt to the movement.

There aren't many lines like this in the Red because they're more endurance oriented but in the Frankenjura for example I can easily see spending inordinate amounts of time on routes which you may possibly never send but there is a chance you will.

I agree, once you've hit a certain point in your climbing where advances are extremely hard to come by via other methods. I can't imagine, however, that for the average person, that point is below 5.13... especially at the Red.

[caribe]

i forgot about that caribe, you do climb like youre about to crush every hold for something that happened in your youth. relax, breathe, have fun. take your shirt off and oil up.

I regret not getting on a lot of routes when I was at my peak...I stayed way too much in my "comfort zone" and played that "gotta build my base" crap too much. There is no prerequisite for getting on higher harder grades...just do it!

No, that's not it Junior, I just don't want to post what Rob posted in here 15 years hence. The oil up bit was funny though. Steph, I heard the body position bit before from Odub; I thought I was actually doing something about that.

[caribe]

Heard Shannon say something like the following once. Hard 11 easy 12 is the human natural plateau. If you want to go beyond that, you are going to have to train hard and get organized.

This is bad news for the cuffers.

[Horatio Felacio]

finger cuffers?

[Gaar]

I work at a pzza place and eat there almost everynight, I dont train except for slacklining, and have at least 3-5 beers a night and have lived this way for about 2 years. when I left the Red I was climbing 3-4days a week, hard 12 sport, and mid 10 trad. I took 9 months off and moved to the florida keys. Returned and moved to Zion.. Last week I sent my hardest trad climb to date on the 2nd try .....13a, and still send 13a sport pretty reguallary here.

For me its as simple as understanding that it is only climbing. If I accept the fact that there is nothing more then personal satisfaction attached with the climb, and no other realitive importance, I usually progress pretty fast.
If you think about this shit to much youll never get anywhere but the 2nd bolt or im my case the first piece of gear.