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512OW wrote: I hate to break it to ya sister, but you're talkin out of your ass. How, pray tell, does someone who isn't motivated by numbers, or who detests the sport being measured and quantified, keep track of all 10 attempts on Tic Tac Toe, or whatever route? I lose track after 3 or 4, cuz I just don't care...
Why do you even keep that spray list?
Face it... numbers are the reason you push to get stronger. or you'd never recognize that you'd gone above a previous level.

my spray list is for me, simply so i know how many routes i have climbed not how hard i climb. i keep track of attempts because it does let me see the ass kicking it takes and how routes compare. i have done 12a before some 11b; so which one is harder? with that said, are some routes not easier/harder for you than for others?? i do my "rating" on what i think or feel. and as i said, for me climbingis a mental game, chess if you will. any retard can benchpress. i like to think(which is why i dislike tick marks, but i digress
i am/ always will be uncomfortable with heights. for me to get out there and take on my fear; well that is all i need to continue on. not numbers. maybe vertical feet but not difficulty. any "level" that i hope to achieve is not one that is measured in numbers.

the fact that so many people get bent out of shape when someone says "it's not about numbers" shows me where the drive is. i stopped playing sports for a reason.

piggie you post came just before i posted mine so real quick. i started climbing because it both frightened me and called to me as well as provided a joy i have never had in my life and nothing else really comes close. FUN. that's where it started and it won't ever end. i don't have goals or desires, maybe that is why i'm such a failure in this life and in climbing; oh wait, same thing.

Anti, have you seen "Peaceful Warrior" ? You might like it, it's about the journey thing and such. It got bad reviews but has some cool "Rock Warrior" type philosophy running through it. I was really inspired to be aware of the current moment after I watched it but that only lasted about a week cause I'm weak.

anticlmber wrote:[ not numbers. maybe vertical feet but not difficulty. any "level" that i hope to achieve is not one that is measured in numbers.

Vertical feet is not measured in numbers? Its not a way to quantify?

like i said. vertical feet might be the only number i would be interested in. i'a afraid of heights. ten feet used to be way up there. 2000ft would be a big accomplishment for me. i can quantify that by look, don't need the number.

is it a number?? sure.
is it the number?? not the one most people look for.
maybe from now on when someone asks me what i climbed i'll just say three 75footers and two 50 footers.
work for you??

Numbers are good to a point, as a general guage as to how you are progressing, but at the same time if you want to progress you have to avoid numbers, for instance don't sike yourself out about a number, I can not say how many times I have gotten crushed on a climb just because I knew it was a 12a. I once onsited a climb whos number was at my limit (admitedly a soft one) only because someone told me it was a full number below my limit, my desire not to fall on what should be an easy climb far outweighed my physical ability.

PS. Driskel, don't take offense to us, all we do is talk shit on here

In reading this thread I thought of an interview with Tony Yaniro years back. Yaniro in addition to doing the hardest routes in the country/ world (Grand Illusion among others) for his day, also was one of the first dudes to really champion specific training for climbing. He talked about his first routes he did at Idylwild and they were like 5.9. Then he had a 5.11 (old school trad) that he wanted to do. He thought that if he went home and did door jamb pull ups (al ot of them) over the course of a few weeks he would find the route easier. It worked, and from there he started creating all types of innovative muscle specific training techniques.
I guess my thought to anyone who wants to climb harder is- what SCIN said. Train. If nothing else, do pull ups and hangs. Try progressing on pull ups to the point that you can do ten sets of ten on a finger board.
And loose weight.
And to the notion that you can be ok with not progressing in terms of grades/ fitness/ overall improvement- sure, why not. Settle for mediocrity. But before you cheese out with the "It is okay to suck, I am a good person and people like me" self talk, remember that climbing is an athletic endeavor. It is totally well with in the rules to thoughtfully train your muscles to make them more powerful/ more efficient.

Don't take it too far and I can take some heckeling but let's keep it civil.

climb on all

anticlmber wrote:like i said. vertical feet might be the only number i would be interested in. i'a afraid of heights. ten feet used to be way up there. 2000ft would be a big accomplishment for me. i can quantify that by look, don't need the number.

is it a number?? sure.
is it the number?? not the one most people look for.
maybe from now on when someone asks me what i climbed i'll just say three 75footers and two 50 footers.
work for you??

Sure, if thats your system... ok.

Fact is, I never said we climb BECAUSE of numbers... only FOR them (as in you reach FOR something)

My main goals are long free climbs. Rainbow Wall, Moonlight Buttress, Regular NW Face, etc...

The numbers attached to those routes give me a specific thing to shoot for before I go out there and get my ass handed to me. I want those routes for their history, their locations, and their aesthetics.... not for the numbers. However, I'd be way more psyched to do Freerider than Nutcracker.... just because the movement will be more challenging, in a more inspiring arena.

Higher number = More Challenge

pigsteak wrote:
it is like people who jog a 10 minute mile and call themselves runners. no, you are a recreational jogger. call a spade a spade.

Oh no! I'm not a real runner either!

hee hee