Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:30 pm
I get ya, Rhunt. I think. Though I didn't say it was really bad style. I just said that it was my personal opinion that I didn't prefer it.
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:49 pm
yep i was busting the guys balls because i seen him climb early the year and he was leading just fine that day. i guess he had a bad day everybody does we all human.
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:04 am
Isn't this whole activity (climbing) about remaining safe and having fun? Ethics are generally social rules that have evolved to limit human interaction with each other and with the environment to maintain safety and respect. Ethical rules are generally practical in nature, and they definitely reflect a purpose. When someone engages in an activity to increase their enjoyment and their safety without stepping on the rights of others then no ethical standards are being violated. Ethics do not extend to form or style, and doing so reflects an elitist standard which is counterproductive to observing the true nature of ethics.
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:51 am
it's kinda like natural ethics - you know like where earthworms won't wrestle because they're peaceful gentle creatures. compared to like someone who uses the john after barac obama and catches turretts syndrome from the the seat then goes around helplessly saying stuff like goddammcocksuckinmutherfuckincocksuckers!
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:57 am
Atl
Make your definitions as you will, but at the end of the day it is all a matter of self respect. If you can reflect positively on a day's climbing as you are heading away from the red on the mountain park way then good for you. If the general MO is stick clipping up routes because one never wants to fall, I am not sure how one can have a positive experience. If self respect is not important or if one can respect self and stick clip their way up everything, this defines a loss of rapport with others who climb everywhere. If one can be happy socially disconnected ... that is fine.
Make your definitions as you will, but at the end of the day it is all a matter of self respect. If you can reflect positively on a day's climbing as you are heading away from the red on the mountain park way then good for you. If the general MO is stick clipping up routes because one never wants to fall, I am not sure how one can have a positive experience. If self respect is not important or if one can respect self and stick clip their way up everything, this defines a loss of rapport with others who climb everywhere. If one can be happy socially disconnected ... that is fine.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:41 am
I hope that most folks don't have the stick clip as standard equipment when they rope up, along with draws, chalk, etc. I seriously doubt that people will do this automatically.
I myself, along with my buddies, have done this type of thing about 2-3 times for different reasons over the last couple years.
Caribe, I think you're spot on. It's kinda like people how are new to climbing who haven't learned yet the difference between getting to the top, and getting the send.
I myself, along with my buddies, have done this type of thing about 2-3 times for different reasons over the last couple years.
Caribe, I think you're spot on. It's kinda like people how are new to climbing who haven't learned yet the difference between getting to the top, and getting the send.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:49 pm
caribe
If the first bolt is too high, and reaching it could result in a dangerous fall then it is a common sense safety measure. As far as self respect goes...that is just ego and self importance. I can do without that. In the end fun is the name of the game...and a game it is. To see it as more than that is ascribing undo importance to the activity.
If the first bolt is too high, and reaching it could result in a dangerous fall then it is a common sense safety measure. As far as self respect goes...that is just ego and self importance. I can do without that. In the end fun is the name of the game...and a game it is. To see it as more than that is ascribing undo importance to the activity.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:05 pm
Atl
I think you and I are on the same page. See my previous posts. I don't see a problem with stick clipping bolt one. Sometimes bolt two might need a clip. Clipping because you can and because you don't want to commit is like cheating at solitaire ... another game and another situation in which many would tend to pass judgment... odd, quirky and laughable, judgment, but judgment regardless.
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Carlos Castaneda was a big fake.
I think you and I are on the same page. See my previous posts. I don't see a problem with stick clipping bolt one. Sometimes bolt two might need a clip. Clipping because you can and because you don't want to commit is like cheating at solitaire ... another game and another situation in which many would tend to pass judgment... odd, quirky and laughable, judgment, but judgment regardless.
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Carlos Castaneda was a big fake.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:14 pm
der uber
I think that is how the thread started.
Modus Operandi: stick clip everything. I wish I had thought of it when I was cutting teeth climbing ... no, my present self is grateful that my past self did not think of it. On the other hand my past self would have leapt on the idea like a ravenous tiger leaps on a bleating kid goat.
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[quote="der uber"]I hope that most folks don't have the stick clip as standard equipment when they rope up, along with draws, chalk, etc. I seriously doubt that people will do this automatically.
I myself, along with my buddies, have done this type of thing about 2-3 times for different reasons over the last couple years.
I think that is how the thread started.
Modus Operandi: stick clip everything. I wish I had thought of it when I was cutting teeth climbing ... no, my present self is grateful that my past self did not think of it. On the other hand my past self would have leapt on the idea like a ravenous tiger leaps on a bleating kid goat.
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[quote="der uber"]I hope that most folks don't have the stick clip as standard equipment when they rope up, along with draws, chalk, etc. I seriously doubt that people will do this automatically.
I myself, along with my buddies, have done this type of thing about 2-3 times for different reasons over the last couple years.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:20 pm
ok...from an old fart...90% of the time if I plan on projecting somehting at my maximum limit, then I have "zero" reservations of stick clipping thru cruxes. I do this for several reasons:
1- it saves energy for the redpoint
2-I get to suss out the moves on TR (since I am afraid of falling)
3- I get to clean and tick holds for my send
4- the draws are now hung
big whoopie folks....stick clips are no more cheating than any other gear you use to sport climb...if you think differently, then you need to go back to painter pants and hexes....and leave stick clipping to the pros....
1- it saves energy for the redpoint
2-I get to suss out the moves on TR (since I am afraid of falling)
3- I get to clean and tick holds for my send
4- the draws are now hung
big whoopie folks....stick clips are no more cheating than any other gear you use to sport climb...if you think differently, then you need to go back to painter pants and hexes....and leave stick clipping to the pros....