FA = Failed Attempt
FFA = First Free Attempt
That's what they mean, right? I think I've got it now.
I think a 6 year old could take out a rack of cams and work their way up just about any crack in the Red if they were able to pull on everything they shoved in the crack. I don't think it's worth noting here in the Red. Other places, maybe so if it's approached as an aid line.
Times have changed. Gear is easy to use and widely available. If we're going to keep noting FA then we should also note FR (First Rappel) and FTWTTC (First Trail Walk To The Climb).
new guidebook
if the red is the exception to the usual way of noting FA and FFA's then why stop there. I have been saying for years that the Red should have its own rating system for its sport routes because of the unique style of most sport routes at the Red - over hanging endurance routes. I am not sure what the rating system should be but just something difference than the standard Yosemite decimal system. Then we'd have our own way of noting "FA people(S)" on sport routes and our own way of rating said routes.
"Climbing is the spice, not the meal." ~ Lurkist
piggie, wtf are you talking about chief ? i could care less who or what gets listed on the fa of anyones route, its old news dude. put your second grade teachers pet monkey and jesus on it for giving you inspiration. the fa is the first to climb from bottom to top on lead without hanging or falling, ffa is pretty useless around here so its not used that much. really dude its not a hard thing to undertstand, i think you just like reading your words on the porn screen. on a sport route if someone helped bolt the route then why is it a bad thing to list them on the fa team ? if its a trad fa and you got 3 or 4 of your hommies out there and they climb who gives a rat shit if you list them after the first person to climb it ? been done for decades around these parts. u are a strange old man.
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OK, RRO. Let me see if I got this straight.
Two climbers have been eyeing this steep as shit unclimbed line on a 200 ft. cliff. Due to the nature of the line they decide it will have to go in four short pitches to avoid severe rope drag. They climb it in impeccable style. On sight, first try, no falls. But because they swung leads, each of them TRd two of the pitches. By your standard it sounds like not only did they not get the FFA, they didn't even get they FA. If that's your standard it's fucked up.
Two climbers have been eyeing this steep as shit unclimbed line on a 200 ft. cliff. Due to the nature of the line they decide it will have to go in four short pitches to avoid severe rope drag. They climb it in impeccable style. On sight, first try, no falls. But because they swung leads, each of them TRd two of the pitches. By your standard it sounds like not only did they not get the FFA, they didn't even get they FA. If that's your standard it's fucked up.
Mr. Day, you have it only partially right...
Climber One is the FA of pitches one and three
Climber Two is FA of pitches two and four.
But because they each relied on the other, they decide that they will list both of their names on the FA.
I think Underoos is talking mostly about the current trend of one pitch bolted sport routes.
I honestly have changed my idea of FA since moving to the Red. Now I use what I consider to be the local concensus. let me use an imaginary example:
Turn Out the Lights
FA: Grant Stephens and LK Day 1972
5.12+ R/X
Follow a manky thin seam to RRO's doorstep. Pull on his crusty knob to enjoy an offwidth layback.
Trad. 140 feet. One Pitch.
Double rope rap.
if I read that in a guidebook at the red, it would tell me that Stephens led the entire pitch without aiding on gear. LK may have merely belayed Mr. Stephens. LK may have never even touched the rock. There can onnly be one FA, and that is the very FIRST person to ascend the rock in the current best style. All others names, as RRO stated, are merely ego fluffs. They may or may not have sent, or even tried the line. Those other names may be a significant other, an awed bystander, the brah who lit the victory bowl, the bolter, or just some one who provided good sex the night before.
After the very first name on an FA, all others should be ignored.
Do I now have it right?
Climber One is the FA of pitches one and three
Climber Two is FA of pitches two and four.
But because they each relied on the other, they decide that they will list both of their names on the FA.
I think Underoos is talking mostly about the current trend of one pitch bolted sport routes.
I honestly have changed my idea of FA since moving to the Red. Now I use what I consider to be the local concensus. let me use an imaginary example:
Turn Out the Lights
FA: Grant Stephens and LK Day 1972
5.12+ R/X
Follow a manky thin seam to RRO's doorstep. Pull on his crusty knob to enjoy an offwidth layback.
Trad. 140 feet. One Pitch.
Double rope rap.
if I read that in a guidebook at the red, it would tell me that Stephens led the entire pitch without aiding on gear. LK may have merely belayed Mr. Stephens. LK may have never even touched the rock. There can onnly be one FA, and that is the very FIRST person to ascend the rock in the current best style. All others names, as RRO stated, are merely ego fluffs. They may or may not have sent, or even tried the line. Those other names may be a significant other, an awed bystander, the brah who lit the victory bowl, the bolter, or just some one who provided good sex the night before.
After the very first name on an FA, all others should be ignored.
Do I now have it right?
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
OK, so two climbers have spotted a sweet new line that looks like it could be a one pitch sport classic.
First they TR it to make sure it will go. Then they prep it with bolts and hangers. All set for the first send. Now we've got a delimma. They both know they can do it, but know only the first to send will be credited in THE BOOK. Do you draw straws, knowing that you're chances are only 50%? Or do you resort to something more nefarious? After all your partner is only your best bud, and we're talking about posterity.
First they TR it to make sure it will go. Then they prep it with bolts and hangers. All set for the first send. Now we've got a delimma. They both know they can do it, but know only the first to send will be credited in THE BOOK. Do you draw straws, knowing that you're chances are only 50%? Or do you resort to something more nefarious? After all your partner is only your best bud, and we're talking about posterity.
Larry
Man on trad multi pitch if climbers are swaping leads and both have clean runs on all pitches its a no brainer, both climbers got the FA. I have ticked the Quest as lead following the same logic. We are totally on the same page and both probably pretty fucked up in the head
But if said climbers spied a steep as shit finger crack on a 70 foot piece of choss and didnt have the balls to try it ground up, went up top and set up a top rope, both tr'd it clean, left for the weekend, some strong punk comes by and sends it first go from the ground, he has the FA, gets to name it, gets the fame and glory and all the ladies. And if thats not your standards then you may be f'd up, and i mean that in the kindest way possible and with all due respect
but in all reality as long as your honest with yourself and others who really gives a shit. its climbing a freaking rock.....
pigsnuts is on the right page for around here with single pitch climbs, mainly sport. this is only what i go by, anyone else is free to think how they want. imho the equipper is that one that does the work, i thought that way long before i picked up a drill. especially on non ground breaking climbs, which is mostly what is being put up around here right now. if some kid puts up a 14.c or something then yeah he deserves some props but really whats the big deal about drilling or fa'ing another moderate route in the red ? leave the fas off, hell while we are at it leave the grades off and see what gets climbed. its all arguing points for people bored at work or stuck in the house due to rain. but if im drilling a line and my lil bro is belaying me for hours, helping me scrub, helping me tr the line to find the bolts, cutting trails to the climb and so on what does it hurt to put him on the fa list ? to me its securing bits of history that would be forgotten over the years. for those that have developed and put new lines up for many years i bet they all kinda run together. you look in a guidebook 20 years from now and see the 2 or so people that helped you create a line and in doing that would help you remember the day better and allow others see who was before them. you can get carried away with it too. just to piss piggie off i have listed 5 people on the fa list. 1 person belayed all day, 2 people tr'd for bolts and scrubbed, 1 climbed the route first and 1 had great sex. its all good.
if we are going to go to who climbs the route first as the only person listed on the fas trad or sport, then we would have to go back to the first routes climbed in the gorge and take away names. some old routes have 5-6 people listed as the fa team. to me i like seeing who was out there with who and how the "teams" changed up.
Man on trad multi pitch if climbers are swaping leads and both have clean runs on all pitches its a no brainer, both climbers got the FA. I have ticked the Quest as lead following the same logic. We are totally on the same page and both probably pretty fucked up in the head
But if said climbers spied a steep as shit finger crack on a 70 foot piece of choss and didnt have the balls to try it ground up, went up top and set up a top rope, both tr'd it clean, left for the weekend, some strong punk comes by and sends it first go from the ground, he has the FA, gets to name it, gets the fame and glory and all the ladies. And if thats not your standards then you may be f'd up, and i mean that in the kindest way possible and with all due respect
but in all reality as long as your honest with yourself and others who really gives a shit. its climbing a freaking rock.....
pigsnuts is on the right page for around here with single pitch climbs, mainly sport. this is only what i go by, anyone else is free to think how they want. imho the equipper is that one that does the work, i thought that way long before i picked up a drill. especially on non ground breaking climbs, which is mostly what is being put up around here right now. if some kid puts up a 14.c or something then yeah he deserves some props but really whats the big deal about drilling or fa'ing another moderate route in the red ? leave the fas off, hell while we are at it leave the grades off and see what gets climbed. its all arguing points for people bored at work or stuck in the house due to rain. but if im drilling a line and my lil bro is belaying me for hours, helping me scrub, helping me tr the line to find the bolts, cutting trails to the climb and so on what does it hurt to put him on the fa list ? to me its securing bits of history that would be forgotten over the years. for those that have developed and put new lines up for many years i bet they all kinda run together. you look in a guidebook 20 years from now and see the 2 or so people that helped you create a line and in doing that would help you remember the day better and allow others see who was before them. you can get carried away with it too. just to piss piggie off i have listed 5 people on the fa list. 1 person belayed all day, 2 people tr'd for bolts and scrubbed, 1 climbed the route first and 1 had great sex. its all good.
if we are going to go to who climbs the route first as the only person listed on the fas trad or sport, then we would have to go back to the first routes climbed in the gorge and take away names. some old routes have 5-6 people listed as the fa team. to me i like seeing who was out there with who and how the "teams" changed up.
http://www.redriveroutdoors.com
If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress
If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress