Sport & Trad Closure at Torrent Falls

[Lateralus]

Mark & family,
thanks for allowing us to climb there. I'm surprised it took this long to close it down. The respectful climbers could never "educate" everyone making a trip to Torrent as every user group has jerks that can't / won't be educated or respectful or the simple fact that you can't talk/reach everyone.
I'll certainly continue to enjoy your restaurant yet I doubt Ill ever stay at the cabins as I'm too much of a tightwad for that, so I guess I'll accept the fact that there are SO many other great places to climb at the red and focus on those crags.
I certainly hope you enjoy the peace and quiet that will come with this decision to do what you want with YOUR land, I'll miss it.

[Torrent Falls]

The timing of the closure was for the end of the season. I kept climbing open during and after Roctoberfest for the courtesy of the climbing community. I was having problems with climbers prior to Roctoberfest. I did not want put the RRGCC though the problem of relocating the event. The Roctoberfest has never been a money making event for me. I have lost money every year putting on this event (except this year). I looked at is as money spent on marketing. Over the years that we have supported this event, I have not seen the ROI (that is Return On Investment for those that are not in business). Again, it was a courteous thing on my behalf and just by the few examples that I have given, one can see where being a nice guy gets you.

The climber who has not seen this kind of activity when climbing must be totally focused on his/her activity. There is always toilet paper left under my overhangs. I should know. The ones that typically use toilet paper are the females. Now how many men have whipped it out and pissed under a rock overhang, behind a rock, or wherever they may not be seen.

As far as charging for climbing. Well then I open myself up for liability. I would not make enough to cover liability costs. Climber's will go elsewhere. Which is fine by me. I have never looked at the donation box as a moneymaker. I would have hoped it would have covered the cost of the Por-o-let. But the climbing community does not want to fork over $65 per month. And even if there is one in place, that does not mean they are going to use it. By the way, I did not increase the price on my cabins for being allowed to climb there. I can now regulate who is on my property. People paying for cabins are paying the going market price. They are not paying to climb on my property.

One can also tell by the reactions to this thread that they have never owned a business. And they do not care or respect the owner of the Crag. Then there are those that are courteous and understand. Thanks to each of you and my family expresses the same. We have struggled over this decision. We know there are alot of good people out there and we thank them. Keep setting the example. Then there are those takers in life that never give a shit about anything but themselves. To those, thanks for ruining for the good people

All I have to say is: I do not have to get angry anymore.

[Saxman]

Just curious. If climbing is allowed as part of a cabin rental which one paid for, how does this not create new liability? Is there a waiver signed as part of the cabin rental? I am just curious how this will be different from charging to climb.

[Meadows]

But the climbing community does not want to fork over $65 per month.

I disagree because I asked you if you'd reconsider if someone had stepped up to pay (and I proceeded to tell you that I would), but at that point you had decided to close and said it didn't matter. I truly believe that 65.00/month was a need we could've met if that was the major issue for the closure. I know you had other headaches, but many of us were working to communicate to others the consequences of their behavior.

But still, thanks ... climbing there was much appreciated by me.

[ynp1]

I think they should have had a "NO FEMALES" sign under the dog sign... then maybe we would still be able to climb at Torrent.

sport and trad closed... is aid climbing OK?

[SCIN]

I don't see what the big deal is. There are like 1400-1500 routes in the Red.

[NEOD]

I agree with the approach of boycotting the restaurant. I'd be curious to know what percentage of his business comes from climbers. I couldn't agree more with the logic that its his land and he can do what he wants with it, but I've got to believe that the increase in climber traffic has brought more business to Torrent Falls over the years. If he's deciding to no longer embrace the climbing community (and all the postitives and negatives that go along it and any subgroup of humanity for that matter), I hope that he'll notice the reciprocal consequences of that decision.

[rhunt]

I agree SCIN, many more routes out there, yet I am still waiting for a new cliff to match Torrent and the Lode in high quality and high consentration. Oh well....

[Meadows]

NEOD, I recall him saying that it's a very small percentage so boycotting doesn't accomplish anything. If you like BBQ, just go there. Also, I've been to the last three Rocktoberfests ... all held at the BBQ and only one brought him profit.

That's "embracing" the community.

[NEOD]

Of course he says its a small percentage! What does he want to do, empower us?? The big events are one thing, but on a seasonal basis, I guarantee he makes money from climbers...