I don't know what it's called any more......

[DuppyC]

Still looking for a partner for this weekend, I'll pick anyone up between the Gorge and B-town, IN on Sat morning between 6-8am. Come on, I got the gas and beer, don't be afraid....

[gulliver]

Ok, now we're getting off topic.

[ReachHigh]

Its not in hijacked yet.

What about the ethics of posting. Discuss among yourselves.

[ElectricDisciple]

I noticed on some trailheads that there are signs put up by the RRGCC informing climbers of the expectations (LNT, dogs, route closures, etc.). This is a great idea which whomever came up with should get a lot of praise and thanks. It shows that people are working to notify others of the expectations and keeps the Coalition's presence known. While some trailheads have this sign at the trailhead some crags' trailheads do not. Roadside Crag doesn't seem to have one posted. With this being a very popular spot should it not have it's own sign? Having posted signs could be a compromise of Saxman's idea of handing out fliers with the expectations because of the litter it may indirectly cause. If some crags have projects being worked on and routes red-tagged, couldn't we also create "legend" that explains what color tag means what, and other climbing issues exist, i.e. "if there are draws hanging on a route, don't steal them, they are being used by another climber".

The issue is that people know what to do and just aren't doing it. I saw a family from Cincinnati on Roadside a couple of weeks ago. They were lowering off of routes through the rappell rings on the C# Bb wall. I knew that what they were doing would cause wear on the rappell rings that so many of us hate to see. ("Oh great! I get to rappell off of that?!" ) So I walked over to them and saw that they had a nice new rope they just used to lower off with and explained to them that if they wanted to keep their rope new and in good shape they ought to rappell off the finished route instead of lowering through the fixed gear. I asked the parents if they knew how to properly set up a rappell and both of them did. I had even seen one of them correctly do it during the day. They were receptive and I didn't think I had lost a friend or been a jerk to them. Perhaps this should be the way we all handle problems that we see while climbing on our own?

***END FEEBLE ATTEMPT TO REFOCUS THE TOPIC**************************

[pigsteak]

piling on? you mean this isn't junior high dodgeball where the dorks get kicked?

[redpointron]

You are probably correct that the residents of Nada have nothing to do with climbing, but I'll bow out on that. I don't know what they do. And as far as any contrived "rules" concerning red-tagged routes, I'm not too concerned about that either. I've seen those type of rules come and go. It used to be that gear left on a route was fair game to the next person that came along. It used to be that you didn't bolt routes that could be protected with trad gear. And it used to be that routes were fair game to whoever could do them.

after reading this post, i couldn’t help but reach for my climber’s guide to smith rock …after all, wasn’t smith the “birthplaceâ€

[ReachHigh]

In extreme cases, the preparation of a new route may take several days of work. Because of this, climbers pioneering new lines at Smith have the right to the eventual first free ascent. This goes for climbs of all levels, whether 5.7 or 5.14. When climbers don’t respect one’s right to complete a project, it takes away much of the motivation for doing new routes. Why bother to go to all the work if pirates are waiting to reap the benefits from your efforts? After enough time passes, attempting climbers typically open their unfinished routes to the masses, but as long as you’re engaged in active pursuit, it should remain yours to finish.(pg. 26)

Right On!

[pigsteak]

I do see zspider's idea that our rules are arbitrary. I have never realized why there is this sanctimonious idea that we don't bolt cracks, yet so many bolted face climbs could also be climbed on gear. ... perhaps it isn't so much ethics as it is 'style" and "accepted practices"...

ethics to me bring into play issues of "right" and "wrong", and for the life of me I can't see what is immoral about bolting a crack. then again, I don't see anything immoral about bolting a face climb either. but ask a lathered up climber around the fire at miguel's and you will get venom spewed for even mentioning these sacred truths...

anyone care to enlighten me how a bolt placed 20 feet away from a crack is ethical and one placed 2 feet from it is unethical?

[charlie]

Ethics are like good manners. If I have to explain them to you, you don't have them and shouldn't expect to be invited to the best parties.

Is it any more ethical to stand up when a lady enters the room, wear a tie to a wedding, or eat your salad with a salad fork instead of the dessert fork?

Really, rationalize and discuss it's logic as much as you like, it is purely a matter of style and respect. Humans have cultural idioms, some of them shift from area to area or over the course of time but there are some simple truths.

I have always seen the climbing culture accept the fact that snaking a red tagged route was pretty low class, kinda like wearing wifebeaters with jogging pants.

[Yasmeen]

anyone care to enlighten me how a bolt placed 20 feet away from a crack is ethical and one placed 2 feet from it is unethical?

Sure. You see, pigsteak, it has to do with political correctness. Anyone can clip a bolt 2 feet away from a crack. However, for those who are wingspan challenged, the bolt 20 feet away from the crack puts them at a severe disadvantage, harms their morale, and just plain compromises the smile that may have otherwise spread across their face.