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i'm willing to wait a few more days on that.

what i could use a little more info on is how local 'has [Bob's] back' and dustonian has been to Torrent and shooting the breeze and (rightfully) defend Dr. Metheny but that they either haven't noticed his frustration nor provided impetus to allay his concerns or, if 'policing our own' is the approach, rallied popular sentiment to the effort.

i'm sure there is a lot more going on than i will ever know, but as long as were saying what a load of assholes climbers are these days, we may as well get at it.

I wish I could understnad more clearly what exactly is the problem right now. The assumption is that this is about people sneaking in without authorized access, but it hasn't been said clearly. And I can't imagine that there are more than a couple of douches doing this. While reprehensible, I cannot imagine that there are enough of them to create a crowd.

I have climbed at Torrent only once before it was closed (might have been my first trip to Red... definitely my first season at the Red), and then twice since it was opened for limited access -- one time we got the gate code by logging in early on Saturday morning, and one time I got the gate code by volunteering for Rocktoberfest. I haver always wanted to rent a cabin, but so far have not been able to find enough interested people to share the cabin with me. It is definitely something I'd like to happen in the future.

For those of you who say that it is easy for a random climber without connections to get the gate code in the morning, I dare say that you are talking like a local, living somewhere in Lexington or Cinci, and able to climb on Thurdays and Fridays, where you can roll out of bed, log in with your good fast internet connection, and if you got your access code, drive to Torrent and climb there. It is definitely much harder to secure a spot on Saturday, and yes, there have been multiple times when I had tried and failed.

I do not in any way blame Dr. Bob for the fact that i wasn't able to get to Torrent any time I wanted to, I am grateful for being able to climb there even just 2 times, and yes, I would much rather see it open with a limited access, as now, than closed altogether.

But for those who talk about "policing our own" and everyone doing their share, I just don't know how you see this happening. When I climbed at Torrent, I saw other people. Was i supposed to question them about how they got in? WHere they supposed to question me? What exactly should I do, as a 'responsible climber' who isn't in the inner-circle of friends and locals to make the access issue better at Torrent? This is what I don't understand, because this was posted on a RRC.com, so presumably addressed to the general climbing public, but what CAN general public do? For Muir I know, I can donate to FOMV, I can volunteer for trail days. For RRGCC, I know-- same thing, donate, participate, etc. But for Torrent?

And yes, I also have heard random people talking about being friends with so-and-so (not Dr. Bob himself) and thus being able to get into Torrent anytime they wanted to. Is this the problem? There are friends of Dr. Bob who got personal permision, and then there are friends of friends who got in with the friends who had Dr. Bob's permission, and then friends of friends of friends who never talked to Dr. Bob, but who believe that they got there legitimately, anyway, because their friend gave them the access code... and the actual circle gets way bigger than Dr. Bob intended when he gave permission to a few friends?

I have't posted or even been to the red since last November. Just happen to log on this morning to see what has been going on, made me think of a "happening" I witnessed at Torrent during a trail day there. I won't mention names, but it was some funny shit what totally clueless people will try.

About 10 of us had worked the morning on trails, beautiful day. Some of us had been hanging out in the parking area taking a break, eating some lunch. A car load of climbers pulls up to the gate just kind of hangs out. One of us (someone that has been around the area for a long time) walks out to see if they were here for the trail work. I overheard the conversation which was crazy-funny. My buddy was all smiles and very open. Kind of went like this.

Hey, hows it goin', you here for the trail day?

Oh.....ah we didn't know there was a trail day today...................we really just want to climb... any chance we can do that?

Well, its closed for climbing today, everybody pitching in will try to get a couple of climbs in when the trail work is done.

So it will be open then?

No, its just for the people HELPING out today, you guys want to help?

(a pause as the climbers discussed there options in the car)

Well how long would we have to work?

I don't know 2-3 hours I suppose.

(more pause and a change of subject)

So this is all private property?

Yes, Bob owns it. He has it open to anyone on a limited basis (he explained the website registration process)

So, what is this with certain people having a key to get in anytime they want, that's not really fair?


Well you see, Bob has what people call "friends" and these "friends" that Bob has have been given access by Bob. That way his "friends" could climb or even hang out with him like "friends" do. And many of the keys are givin by Bob to people that have helped out in the RRGCC.

I think we are just run down to Roadside, Thanks





Maybe you just had to be there, I thought it was some funny shit







.

Bob, you don't need anyones permission to close your crag. I think the amount of community work you've done excuses you.

why was I the only one to vote 'i don't care, i got my proj"?

that is the right answer for all your selfish climbers....

I voted for Us and Them. After all we're only ordinary men.

pigsteak wrote:why was I the only one to vote 'i don't care, i got my proj"?

that is the right answer for all your selfish climbers....

As a truly selfish climber, I am too busy working my project to bother with this online voting crap...

I got one of those titanium sporks

where is this info about people climbing without permission on the online guide??? i'm not finding it. all i see is some douche from out of the country making a douchey out of the country comment.

If you're just mad that people think they should have the right to climb on your property i'm sorry about that... (i really dunno why people would be like that with private property.. i mean... people aren't lined up in my driveway right now waiting for a turn on my Harley-Davidson.... cuz i own it, they don't.) speaking of which, if someone did come ride my bike it would be a crime. so if people are on your land without your permission it is not only rude but more importantly, a crime. dunno what the laws are exactly down there but i'd wager that far back in the woods you can probably shoot people for that and be ok. mike schultz at HP40 carrys a .45 on his hip... seems to work.

i for one am really grateful for the chance you do give for nobody's like me to climb at such an awesome crag. i've used the registration three times now with no problems... feels pretty cool when that gate swings open. if you decide to close it... anybody that owns something they love would understand.

Toad wrote:I voted for Us and Them. After all we're only ordinary men.

Havent you heard - it's a battle or words?