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pigsteak wrote:that being said , I had a buddy who broke a foot hold in the middle of a route and fell. he got right back on and finished it and then ticked it off his list...fair game?

I say foul ball.

Funny.

This kinda reminded me of when a couple of friends and I decided that it was almost a good idea to tick routes that where well within our abilities that we had seen and could imagine climbing easily. We were going to classify them as "moot points", but collect full value online. In the end, we decided that it might be cheating.

leading is dangerous, i tr everything. i thought it counted. guess i need to remove some sends...

What it comes down to, is call it whatever the hell you want.

Its funny that everyone says "unclipping is harder anyway". No, it isn't. You just suck even more at unclipping than you do at clipping. Fact is, toproping, for people who prefer toproping, provides them with a way to sidestep the mental strain they go through while leading. It's bringing a climb down to their level, instead of building their own skills to realize the climb.

Unclipping certainly is a bit harder when there is a whole bunch of tension on the rope from your belayer taking 20 lbs. off your weight and winching you up a climb that is beyond your abilities.

camhead wrote:Unclipping certainly is a bit harder when there is a whole bunch of tension on the rope from your belayer taking 20 lbs. off your weight and winching you up a climb that is beyond your abilities.

If there is a whole bunch of tension on the rope from your belayer, wouldn't clipping be harder than unclipping? Yes, it would.

512OW wrote:Fact is, toproping, for people who prefer toproping, provides them with a way to sidestep the mental strain they go through while leading. It's bringing a climb down to their level, instead of building their own skills to realize the climb.

I don't fully agree. What you said is true most of the time - and almost always in the gym. But I think there are some rock climbs that have "no fall zones" within them. As in, if you fall here, you are likely to get hurt. I think it would be foolish for someone to decide to lead a climb like that when it's the top of their limit and it could likely result in injury. I think in order to build their skills, it would be better to work it out on TR until gaining the ability and confidence to do the moves. It's not really bringing it down to their level, more like bringing their level up to the climb.

Granted, the reason I feel that way is that last year I decided to just go for it, embrace the mental strain - and ended up in the hospital for my efforts! So now if there's something questionable about a route, I'd rather TR it and lead it later when i know i'm less likely to injure myself!

But that's just the way I see things based on the experiences I've had while climbing.

If you got hurt sport climbing I would hypothesize that you had a bad belay.

more cheezits please

Josephine wrote:

512OW wrote:Fact is, toproping, for people who prefer toproping, provides them with a way to sidestep the mental strain they go through while leading. It's bringing a climb down to their level, instead of building their own skills to realize the climb.

I don't fully agree. What you said is true most of the time - and almost always in the gym. But I think there are some rock climbs that have "no fall zones" within them. As in, if you fall here, you are likely to get hurt. I think it would be foolish for someone to decide to lead a climb like that when it's the top of their limit and it could likely result in injury. I think in order to build their skills, it would be better to work it out on TR until gaining the ability and confidence to do the moves. It's not really bringing it down to their level, more like bringing their level up to the climb.

Granted, the reason I feel that way is that last year I decided to just go for it, embrace the mental strain - and ended up in the hospital for my efforts! So now if there's something questionable about a route, I'd rather TR it and lead it later when i know i'm less likely to injure myself!

But that's just the way I see things based on the experiences I've had while climbing.

I agree 100%, which is why I specified in my post "for people who prefer toproping". I don't believe that TR'ing a climb for safety reasons means that you prefer toproping. I was grouping all of the people who nearly always choose a toprope over a lead as "people who prefer toproping".

Josephine wrote:

512OW wrote:Fact is, toproping, for people who prefer toproping, provides them with a way to sidestep the mental strain they go through while leading. It's bringing a climb down to their level, instead of building their own skills to realize the climb.

I don't fully agree. What you said is true most of the time - and almost always in the gym. But I think there are some rock climbs that have "no fall zones" within them.
Granted, the reason I feel that way is that last year I decided to just go for it, embrace the mental strain - and ended up in the hospital for my efforts! So now if there's something questionable about a route, I'd rather TR it and lead it later when i know i'm less likely to injure myself!

But that's just the way I see things based on the experiences I've had while climbing.

all climbs have no fall zones, its called before the first and until the 2nd or 3rd, depending on your weight. all climbs are dangerous and i think many people get hurt on stuff within their ability more, its called complacency.

shit happens and people get hurt driving, climbing, sex, you name it.