RRC Archives

---If you consider knots state functions then the 8 on a bight is the same as the rewoven eight.

---If you consider the knot a path function, then the 8 on a bight may be able to assume the configuration of the rewoven 8 because it may have to pass through a closed loop to use it in a certain way. I can agree with this.

--- The mathematical definition of knot assumes path-independence (a function of state). In fact if you can find a path that interconverts two configurations the two are assumed to be identical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot_theory

---In real life, you can always reweave the knot to use it with or without a biner. In other words the bight path function is a subset of the rewoven path function to the same state. So if you know that the rope is going to enter a closable loop tie the knot on a bight and call it a shortcut to knot x.

---I am not going to stoop to argue semantics. I am more than willing to call the configuration a rewoven bowline so we can avoid putting on 24 oz boxing gloves to go toe-to-toe about who would win a fair fight, Tarzan or Flash Gordon.

---Seriously . . . do you guys really see knots as path functions???? If I configure the rope into a figure 8 by . . . say . . . tying it with one hand . . . do we have to invent another name for it? trippy . . .

---Really, I am willing to call it anything to be able to communicate with you. I looked for rewoven bowline on the internet, but could not find it. I really did not look that hard though.

rhunt wrote:A knot in a bight of rope is some place in the middle of a rope where the knot is made. All other knot are made by using an end of the rope.

I thought that these were referred to as mid-line knots, even when they might be toward the end of a rope.

I am just not sure knowing all these knots gets you anywhere. There are only a couple work horse knots that are necessary in my opinion. For example, a couple years ago, Allah (Kenny Barker) was bolting out at the chocolate factory and needed a mid-line knot in his rope to haul himself up and diagonally to the right. He was on the wall with his hands full. I was on the ground and I put an alpine butterfly into his rope. That was the first and last time I have ever had to tie one.

caribe wrote:
I thought that these were referred to as mid-line knots, even when they might be toward the end of a rope.

I am just not sure knowing all these knots gets you anywhere. There are only a couple work horse knots that are necessary in my opinion. For example, a couple years ago, Allah (Kenny Barker) was bolting out at the chocolate factory and needed a mid-line knot in his rope to haul himself up and diagonally to the right. He was on the wall with his hands full. I was on the ground and I put an alpine butterfly into his rope. That was the first and last time I have ever had to tie one.

As a sport climber, you really dont need to know much in the way of knots, but as you dabble in multipitch, mountaineering, etc... knots are incredibly useful.

The best use for a butterfly knot is when you are in a rope team during alpine mountaineering. The people in the middle of the rope clip in with the butterfly because it can be loaded in multiple directions without putting weird stresses on the rope.

mid-line knot huh sounds like another way to say knot in a bight of rope. I used a clove hitch last week at squamish for the first time in years. That is a knot that is only tied in a bight of rope.

rhunt wrote:mid-line knot huh sounds like another way to say knot in a bight of rope. I used a clove hitch last week at squamish for the first time in years. That is a knot that is only tied in a bight of rope.

I use the clove hitch all the time.

knots are very important in all forms of rock climbing! what if you need to escape the belay to rescue your partner? or ascend the rope to give medical attention? or drop your belay device from the top of a climb? everyone that climbs should at least know the figure eight, munter mule, prussik (or another abseiling knot), clove hitch, munter hitch, and I'm sure I'm forgetting something... and there are many many more kickass knots that are very good to know in different situations. I myself don't like to climb with someone that can't get me out of a mess if I'm in one, and that requires a descent understanding of knots and ropework...

oh, and the bowline with a keeper knot is perfectly safe to tie in with.

was it werner braun or jim bridwell who said he only knew one knot (figure 8) and use it exclusively.