RRC Archives

figure 8 is simple and safe

DriskellHR wrote:I tie a overhand knot with some bailing twine and on belay!!

When I was eight I broke my arm when I had an overhand in some bailing twine fail while I was 'rappelling' out of a walnut tree. If only I would've had the Ultimate Encyclopedia of Knots and Ropework then...

Myke Dronez wrote:

DriskellHR wrote:I tie a overhand knot with some bailing twine and on belay!!

When I was eight I broke my arm when I had an overhand in some bailing twine fail while I was 'rappelling' out of a walnut tree. If only I would've had the Ultimate Encyclopedia of Knots and Ropework then...

Thats what you get for rappelling. You should just lower from the anchors.

OK . . . about a 25% use the bowline and the other 3/4 use the eight. I have never heard of these two knots failing. A correctly tied 8, DBL or WBL will not kill you. Worn equipment, protection failing and human error will.

512OW wrote:

Myke Dronez wrote:

DriskellHR wrote:I tie a overhand knot with some bailing twine and on belay!!

When I was eight I broke my arm when I had an overhand in some bailing twine fail while I was 'rappelling' out of a walnut tree. If only I would've had the Ultimate Encyclopedia of Knots and Ropework then...

Thats what you get for rappelling. You should just lower from the anchors.

he would have lowered, but he didn't have a belay.

Bowlines are great, no doubt. However, they can untie themselves if weighted and unweighted numerous times. The yosemite finish can help prevent this... or you could just tie an eight. I learned though the AMGA that a "colorado" finnish on an eight can make it a little easier to untie after a fall or two, and it can when done correctly. The AMGA trains the use of 8s on everything involving humans and overhands with gear. I asked once about a bowline application and we used it for a static rope anchor rappelling emergency rescue situation from a couple of trees, and the reasoning can be obvious if you think about it. It's a good knot to know, like the water knot, fishermans, pusik, kleimheist, munter mule hitch along with the other hitches and tie offs. It's a super fast knot to tie when you know how to tie it - that's why my friends use it when they're caving, almost exclusively. I on the otherhand chose to use a good old figure eight. Sometimes I follow through one extra time (colorado) if I'm feeling fancy.

The thing that no one has mentioned is that the bowline knots only function well when put under a load, e.g. falling. When that happens it is impossible for that knot to come untied. The 8 funtions as whether it is weighted or not. For that reason bowlines always have to be backed up ( as should all knots anyways), as the likelihood of it coming untied while simply climbing is very high. Bowlines and double bowlines are incredibly strong, and thats why they have such a prominent place on sailboats, where the loads that they are put under are an order of magnitude larger that what any sport climber can generate even on a long lead fall. But again, the bowline only functions as designed when weighted. It is a solid knot, but I would stick with the 8.

kidney_dave wrote:...as the likelihood of it coming untied while simply climbing is very high..

Really? Very high? Never had it happen.

Bowline, DBL or WBL coming untied is a common myth. Back it up anyway.

just dress em' up real nice n' tight so there no slop in the 'hole' or the 'rabbit'