Trusting Pre-placed Draws

[kneebar]

IMO If you feel unsafe rapping a route you might want to go back to the gym.........where it is nice and safe. (this goes for anyone lowering off trad climbs).
There are plenty more serious shit that can happen on a tard line.

Sport climbing has its own rules, I still prefer to rap unless it is overhanging severely and the anchors are set-up for lowering.

[redpointron]

Intense Paul.

yeah, maybe.. sorry.

Replacing a ring doesn't required drilling, just unscrew quick link - replace ring, rescrew quick link...

ok, different things then, rings vs. links. and links aren't all that cheap.

regardless.. it sounds like your issue isn't with rapping/lowering at all but with gumbies. no matter what they do, they'll be sketchy.. that's life.

anyway, i just don't understand why people can't put themselves out just a little, just the smallest inconvienence, to help someone else or a community out, even if that help is relatively small. that's what i just can't comprehend..

half inch links are 4 bucks a piece. that adds up REALLY fast

[Yasmeen]

dbrayack - your imagination sounds as morbid as mine-- reading your post was reliving all the things I think about as I'm cleaning, whether I'm about to rappel or lower. Especially now that it's getting warmer, I usually can't help but think, "What if I get attacked by hornets while I'm still in direct?" <-- that could happen if you're about to lower, too, though... I'm just sayin'.

To be fair, the issue you mentioned with your friend being taken off belay was miscommunication. Granted, I always double-check when I hear "off belay." Some people don't, and to some it obviously means "give me slack" while to others it means "off belay." Personally, I think you should just say what you mean. If you're cleaning to lower, the whole goal is never to be off belay, right? So why yell down "off belay"?

I almost had to watch a very good friend deck one day because his belayer thought he heard "take me off" when what was said was "take me up." It pays to double-check.

[tomdarch]

You rapell too far - you can't get the draw, you're screwed (can't batman back up)

???? pay attention to what you're doing.

The more you climb, the more you'll hear stories about experienced climbers f@#%ing up rappels in all sorts of creative ways. (These usually end in "splat" rather than just missing cleaning a piece of gear.)

Maybe I'm irrationally paranoid (is that redundant?), but rapping is a last resort in terms of safety for me. I watched a Quebecois guy do some seriously sketchy crap rap cleaning last weekend. If his partner had simply kept him on belay the whole time and lowered him, he would have had both hands free to maneuver and clean, rather than taking both hands off the rope (no back-up, no fireman's!?!) to dick around.