RRC Archives

Saxman wrote:I'm giving up climbing. Since all the new routes are too safe, the old routes shouldn't be updated, and loose rocks are now sacrosanct, I quit.

Hey kirker, now is your chance to get ahead of him in points! He quit!

So I found this loose rock on a route.............I think it was called Texas Flake, I'm sure the Nose would be much safer if we trundled that sucker.

Ha Ha
Ashtray, I am going to regard your arching of me with kool indifference. You will have to seek new all time lows in both comportment and communication to even raise my askance brow or attract the slightest attention from me.
yep . . . kool indifference to your very existence, unlike the roach which I spend effort to crush, more like the ladybird beetle, whose presence I gladly suffer.

Meh, contrived danger (bad bolts, bad placement, gratuitous loose rock, contrived runouts, etc) is just as dumb as contrived difficulty. If you want scary routes, they are out there for your amusement, or go put up some of your own in the style you see fit. Sport lines, should be *reasonably* safe for the most part. Spicy is fine, esp. if the nature of the route forces you to climb a bit more to the next bolt then maybe you would like. But, don't romanticize the idea that the FA/route is "cool" because they jacked a bolting job, used inferior hardware, or did a crappy job cleaning.

And to the "gumby bolters" thing - placing a bolt safely really is not all that hard. Not even close to as complex as driving a car. Truthfully, it takes like 15 minutes to get a handle on how to do it. Hell, trad climbing is generally more complex. Now, doing a good job with where you place the bolts and creating an overall nice route is a bit harder for sure.

Sax can't quit because Alton still climbs.

ashtray wrote: bolting is not part of the normal climbing experience

ashtray wrote:he came up through the ranks. he was a climber first, then he bolted.

Ashtray. I really agree with this sentiment. It seems like a natural progression to learn what makes a good route by climbing tons of routes and then try to make your own contribution to the climbing community. It does kinda suck when you climb stuff that was just a bad idea from the get-go. There does seem like a higher percentage of routes do suck right now. I am with you.

Here is the thing. Almost all of these offending routes are easier routes and most are safe. Here is a important caveat. Gumbies love these routes. Ask around dude. I can't tell you how many people tell me that they loved some 35 foot piece of shit that just got bolted by some guy that just got his first pair of madrocks.

So what is the harm. No new guy is going to add a variation to Golden Boy. No new guy is going to add a route to the undertow wall. Hell, I am sure someone would be offended by these correctly grid bolted walls that you cherish.

Does this make it right? No, but obviously there is no "right or wrong"

But in the end I do agree. An experienced climber would make a good choice for putting up quality but not necessarily safe routes.

Wes wrote:Meh, contrived danger (bad bolts, bad placement, gratuitous loose rock, contrived runouts, etc) is just as dumb as contrived difficulty. If you want scary routes, they are out there for your amusement, or go put up some of your own in the style you see fit. Sport lines, should be *reasonably* safe for the most part. Spicy is fine, esp. if the nature of the route forces you to climb a bit more to the next bolt then maybe you would like. But, don't romanticize the idea that the FA/route is "cool" because they jacked a bolting job, used inferior hardware, or did a crappy job cleaning.

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!! You do realize you have just emasculated yourself.

charlie wrote:
There are tons of clean, easy, accessible routes in the gorge. You don't like the choss, no problem. Walk on and find something you can handle, don't damage it for those of us that do and for fucks sake DO NOT EVER alter a route without talking to the FA party.

Charlie, I have a confession. ( I don't think this will effect your quest for choss. There are plenty of crumblies out there for everyone. ) But here we go.

I trundle. I do. I freak'in love it. Sorry buddy. I can PM you a list of routes that I have altered so you can dole out my retribution.

Wes wrote:Meh, contrived danger (bad bolts, bad placement, gratuitous loose rock, contrived runouts, etc) is just as dumb as contrived difficulty. If you want scary routes, they are out there for your amusement, or go put up some of your own in the style you see fit.......

Your opinion, and a good opinion, but it does not eliminate the possibility for others to have different opinions and there can be enough routes out there for all of us.

That was put up in Johnny's style, and then altered. It wasn't dangerous, but exciting. Now it's just lame. I don't think he or Alex would think lame was the Family Tradition.

What happens when those routes are changed by others after the fact? When we gonna get more bolts on Running Down a Dream? When are there gonna be anchors on Gameboy? When are the anchors gonna show up on Dog Days?

I have no problem with new anchors and new bolts or cleaning routes as long as it doesn't CHANGE THE CHARACTER of the climb. There are plenty of perfect routes for that, but some of us like our choss.

The point I was trying to make with this rant is widespread assumptions of entitlement to perfect bolts, clean routes, and anchors at every pitch is undermining the thing some people like about climbing. There are plenty of routes for you to get your rocks off on, walk on if it doesn't suit your style and for God's sake DO NOT CHANGE ROUTES you didn't put up.

How does a loose block make that route exciting? It wasn't even necessary to climb the thing. "Oh look, there is a loose block, this route rocks! Just think, some gumby could pull that rock down on their gumby belayer. Wow, I would love to be there to see that!!" Maybe that explains why 12 out of 20 people gave the thing 3 stars or less. The block took very little effort to move meaning it had to have loosened over its four year history. Weather and/or people yanking on it had culminated in a block that took so little effort to remove I was shocked it was still there, considering it was a large loose block balancing on a small loose block.