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Celebrating friends and family and having a wonderful time has nothing to do with any religion. People came together during different times of the year long before a bunch of nut jobs started stalking a jew in the middle east.

Bullshit. I can celebrate for any reason, any time and call it 'celebrating winter', celebrating life, no opportunity for 'Christmas' irony involved there. Don't care if it's a time when some little mythical babe was born 'immaculately' or not. It's not like I'm hanging crosses everywhere and with a manger on my front lawn - and then denying the religion they come from. Festivity for the HELL of it, for fun, for love, for the common man and all that crap. So, no, I don't celebrate "Christmas" as you stated.

Christmas is a time of giving and I hope every one does. For any reason you can think of. I'm just pushing your buttons because I haven't been to church since I started climbing and all this athiesm just undermines my already shakey faith. It works both ways in here.

heidiramma wrote:

no matter where it takes you (hell, for certain)

Okay, that's gotta be a joke

most definitely a joke... or maybe a climbing reference as there is a lot of cliffline in the area around "hell for certain" (between muir valley and the PMRP).

saxman, the good old bible says that "iron sharpens iron", which could be taken as a homosexual reference, so taking verses out of context (as all good book people do), you're good to go with pigsteak. enjoy!

i think all of you need to RUN to church right now.

it's all belief.
in truth, in lies, in the known, and the unkown.
the question you'll never answear
from the cradle to the grave
and on the day it reveals its self
we hope we didn't check yes
when we should have circled maybe

ah, Pascal's gamble. That what this thread comes down to.
Do you, or don't you, and are you sure, and are you willing to ante up?

what does some guy that made a dog salivate have to do with this?

As a believer, one thing I hate to see is when organized religion begins to attack the petty, ignore the significant, and alienate themselves from the base ideas of personal freedom, and liberty. Example; I am not homosexual, but I would never stop you from being who you want to be. I keep my sexuality to myself, why wouldn’t everyone else want to do the same? You do drugs? Great, have fun with that. Drink too much? Me too sometimes, please just don't drive.

I have left church after church because humans are so hypocritical and flawed. Christians can be so vicious even when they are together seeking piety. They seem to want to show each other who can be the most Christian. I hate to see that. I would ask any liberal to read the gospel and try to understand the ideas that Christ had. He really lived as a good example of love, forgiveness, and peace. Most of that can be lost in organized religion. I too attack the misguided Christians.

Love thy neighbor, not control him. You’ll just run them in the other direction.

I'm not perfect at respecting everyone's beliefs, but I will die protecting your right to have them.

the lesson is simple.

accept Jesus Christ as your savior.
all the other stuff is filler that you should strive for. if you do not accept the rule above then none of that stuff matters.

i find it humorus that the dali lama has written many books, traveled and spoken with many, many, people(including presidents) yet not one of you has attacked that. why? why are the "beleivers" of one faith lambasted and those of another that is, dare i say "trendy", left alone. hipocrit assholes, all of ya.

ScrmnPeeler wrote: I would ask any liberal to read the gospel and ...

Just shut up