Belay Loop Testing

[512OW]

1 failure point is bad.

The only single failure point should be the rope.

When you're rappelling, there is only one carabiner attaching your rappel device to you.

When climbing, only one biner attaching you to your belayer.

There is nearly always a point in the system where "one point" is all thats between you and total failure.

[GWG]

Info from the Petzl website:

"Clearly identified green belay loop. The green belay loop identifies the point where the belay device/descender must be connected. It's the strongest part of the harness"

http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportNews?News=178

The belay loop goes through the reinforced tie-in points.

I was at a gear shop in New Paltz, NY a couple of weeks ago and they were demonstrating a new Petzl harness that is designed so that it's difficult to run a biner through the tie-in points. I didn't get an up close and personal view of that harness.

[Shamis]

When you're rappelling, there is only one carabiner attaching your rappel device to you.

When climbing, only one biner attaching you to your belayer.

There is nearly always a point in the system where "one point" is all thats between you and total failure.

True, but that's why most of us use really burly locking biners for belaying.

And with regards to rapelling, you can back it up, not that I usually bother. But rapelling is the most dangerous aspect of climbing.

I don't mind brand new belay loops, but many people will wear their harnesses until the belay loops look like a dog has been gnawing on them...and it does bother me when I'm belayed off of that.

I guess if the new harnesses are trying to eliminate other places to clip into then I'll have no choice but to give in, but I never belay off of a belay loop. I'll hang off a belay loop, but that's about it, and when my belay loop looks worn, I'll usually back it up when I do hang off of it. I guess I'm paranoid...but periodically old climbers tend to just die from random accidents that probably would have been prevented by a little paranoia.

[Meadows]

Why do you never belay off your belay loop?

[pigsteak]

he already said..he's paranoid. duh.

[Shamis]

Why do you never belay off your belay loop?

When belay loops first appeared, nobody belayed off of them. 10 years ago most climbers I knew would think you were dangerous or crazy if you used your belay loop for more than clipping into anchors while chilling on a ledge. I guess it never really wore off for me.

I have no problems clipping a big locker into my harness directly, so I don't see the purpose in the belay loop. The only time I find it handy is when I need to clip smaller biners in.

Why don't you guys just tie into your belay loops while your at it?

[rhunt]

Why don't you guys just tie into your belay loops while your at it?

I'm with you Shamis. I was taught to not use the belay loop too back in the day. I find it awkward when I do try and use it.

Yet the real question still remains why not tie into the belay loop?

[pigsteak]

rhunt....you know mark postle does that

[Pru]

I just realized I don't use the belay loop either, except for girth hitching a daisy that I use to set up rappels.

As to tying into the belay loop, I wouldn't feel comfortable with the nylon-on-nylon rubbing action of a belay loop against my rope. When you go through the tie-in points, the rig doesn't rub as much.

[rhunt]

Pigsteak, yeah he does but I haven't seen that in a while. Pru, the whole rub agrument doesn't make much sense to me. I can't see it rubbing anymore more than when you tie into the regular spot. I think this topic has already been covered before... My tie in spots wear out quickly from rubbing. What I am trying to figure out is if that is from when I pull the rope out after untying the knot or just normal wear from falls and such.

Oh and the only time I use the belay loop is to go in direct with a draw at a bolt when I am resting and working routes so Pigsteak's hemorrhoids don't flare up...LOL Don't believe him when he says it to let the rope relax.