RRC Archives

Zspider wrote:krampus wrote:

sounds like we are back to doggy BBQ

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Taste like chicken?

ZSpiddy

Chicken? Or did you really want to know if it tastes like Cock? Keep asking around. You might find someone that can help you. I'm betting it depends on which part you might be snacking. If you get some gnats in the first bite, look out...it may be the happy meter.

Dog owners want their dogs treated like people. I'm perfectly fine with that. Any person, or dog being treated like a person, who sticks their nose in my crotch, will be kicked. Period.

Unless I like the dog... or the person.

Andrew wrote:Every person I ran into witha dog at Muir this weekend was leash less.

Including Yasmeen.

The crag is not a place for the dog. Go hiking with the dog on a leash somewhere. Do some activity that allows you to pay attention to the dog. Climbing is not it. If I see your dog at the crag however I will pet it and treat it like royalty . . . but it really should not be there. Our pets increase our foot print on the environment.

First, I think my dogs have been to Muir twice, maybe three times. And they were leashed the whole time, from car to car. Anyone that can't follow Rick's basic and very reasonable rules should be called out, no doubt.

Now, for the "in general" statement.
Since 99% of the climbers out there feel entitled to climb where ever and whenever they want. For Free. And without doing anything at all to help out with trails/routes/fund raising/etc. I will go ahead and feel entitled to bring my dogs (who bark, though we are working on that), since I give up climbing days to help build the trails, bolt/fix the routes, and help with the fund raising, including giving up a month of a road trip a couple years ago, to help with the PMRP. And, many of the very people that keep climbing going, that provide cool new routes and fix the old ones, are dog owners. So, when you all decide that the crags are no place for dogs, I hope you are ready to start taking care of the place yourselves, as I would rather just take them out for a few hours of hiking, and do other stuff with my life at that point.

well said wes...well said.

How come I feel anticlimbers post was aimed at me, and I don't even have a dog.

Wes, you make some excellent points. As I have been watching this thread I have been thinking how this really is about more than just dogs. It is about one of the RRGCC's main tenets, responsible climbing. What is responsible climbing? It is many things. It is about knowing who's land you are climbing on, what are the rules there? It is about respect, for the land and for other people out there enjoying the outdoors. It is also about giving back, volunteering for a trail day, making a donation, attending a Forest Service meeting.

Where I see a real disconnect is in assuming that people are going to grasp what "responsible climbing" is from reading a sign, reading something in a guidebook, lurking on climbing forums, etc. As far as level of consciousness I think we are talking about two different groups of climbers: 1) those who should know better but who continue to act irresponsibly and 2) those who are clueless. Hopefully for those falling in category #1 a little peer pressure will work and I would tend to agree that for the small percentage who make it their point to flaunt the rules no matter what, maybee more drastic measures are called for.

Unfortunately I think a lot of people coming to the Red fall into the clueless category. That is where we have some tough work to do. For the non-local visiting climbers, many fall in the clueless category. It is my experience that there are also more than a few "local" climbers who are relatively clueless.

Whenever I am at the crag or at Miguel's, RRO, etc. I always make it a point to talk to climbers to see where they are from, what they know about local access issues, etc. Most people are more than happy to listen and learn more. It would be good if more of us could think of ourselves as ambassadors, to reach out and talk to climbers about responsible climbing, about access issues. Even then with the large numbers of people coming to the Red, how do we reach them all?

After our Strategic Planning sessions and some discussions about communication & use of technology I started to form this idea of "Red TV". It would be like a closed circuit TV station devoted to the Red with monitors @ RRO, Miguel's, TNO and also on the internet. It would have climbing videos interspersed with webcams and weather conditions at various parking areas plus "responsible climbing" commercials and commercials from local & climbing related businesses. Kind of a pipe dream but I couldn't think of a better way to reach the masses?

Andrew wrote:How come I feel anticlimbers post was aimed at me, and I don't even have a dog.

He has that whole Jesus picture thing, you know, wherever you go the picture is always looking at you, that kind of thing

chriss wrote:I love ignorant statements such as this one.

I would shoot you in the leg just to watch you squirm math boy. I still say HP40 is the model of how to deal with idiotic spoiled climbers. Intelligent discourse without threat of reprimand for breaking rules does little for far too many climbers.