THANKS and Perma Draw Poll

Post by **Cliff Heindel** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:29 pm

fyi it was rro's $ which was 'donated' -he can't be trusted and only sells bagels cause he's too cheap to use a full slice of bread.

Post by JB » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:03 pm

would it make sense to just put permdraws on the bottom bolt for cleaning purposes? it seems like it's that one that gets you usually. but yeah, if there are going to be draws hanging, why not make them semi permanent.

Post by **drifter** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:06 pm

I've cleaned the routes at the Solar Collector before and they're not that bad. Darkside would be a better candidate if the funds are limited (and aren't they always).

Another option when dealing with limited $$'s is to only install limited fixed draws. If a route has 2 fixed draws (or cleaning biners), the climber cleans on lower as normal, gets to the fixed draws and clips his side into the rope, keeping him in close. If it's really steep, he can always go in direct, untie and pull the rope, then clip into the cleaning draw/biner and continue down. Of course, they're now only on 1 bolt but who hasn't lowered off of one bolt. In my experience, morons are more likely to steal the cleaning biners thinking they're bailers than a fixed draw with a burly quick link on it.

On a related note, Kolin Powick the CQA manager at Black Diamond has done some pull testing on old, manky webbing taken from the VRG among other places. The bottom line was that the old nasty stuff was definitely weaker than when new but still mostly safe.

Definitely interesting reading for all of us who climb on fixed draws. If it looks nasty, do your part and replace it.

http://www.bdel.com/scene/beta/qc_kp.php

Cheers,

Brent

Post by **ruetut** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:49 pm

With all the rrgcc and team suck and whos money is who's, are all you guys (and one girl i think i counted) saying there is no chance to get perma draws on twinkie? That would be nice.

Post by **rhunt** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:40 pm

twinkie yes that would be cool. Yet I wonder if the forest service might frown on that, they might see it as an eye sore.

Post by **Tunica Intima** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:11 pm

Undertow and madness-motherlode, cave-bobmarley, twinkie and phantasia-phantasia, sex farm and stunning the hog-left flank, darkside.

Post by **Tunica Intima** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:18 pm

Also.......... chains would be less maintenance, stronger and can be painted to match the rock. But if people don't like the look of the them, whatever.

Post by **Team Suck** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:02 am

Thanks for the feedback.

Routes will be fixed, new routes will be put up, you may even find steel biner perma draws in place on those worn ass booty biners. But now your gonna have to go out and climb to find them. Have fun and climb smart.

Post by **rhunt** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:21 pm

Thanks Team Suck you're the BEST!!

Post by **the lurkist** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:34 pm

any thought to using a swaging tool and creating cable swaged draws? I have a few that i had pull tested a few years ago with the idea of fixing the Cave with them. Never got around to it, but just wondered what anyone else thought of that.