BOHICA soloed
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gregkerzhner
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:09 pm
Yo Yo Homie!
not worth it...
Last edited by gregkerzhner on Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Yo Yo Homie!
Just for future reference.gregkerzhner wrote: I am the best climber alive.
Isn't 20 more than a dozen?
Victory Whip in da House. Yeah.
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peter bonamici
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:45 pm
yes greg, you have it dialed. and to all of you who have suggested that this thing is anywhere near greg's limit, it's not. he walked that thing, just like i've seen him walk it 5 or six times with a rope. and besides, the bad ass then went over and sent "take that katie brown" in the sun, which, i have heard is harder. either way, greg you are a bad ass. i just dont want to see, or hear about, you dying. and no, we dont do everything we possibly can do to make things safe, but we do do somethings (well some of us do...). whatever. oh, and you are famous.
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peter bonamici
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:45 pm
I know I have made several prior postings but I felt the need to make one more just to sum things up. Several reasons come to mind when I stopped and thought about how incredibly stupid this was.
One basic idea is necessary to understand before I continue. I know climbing is dangerous. No Shit. I have been involved in the sport long enough to understand that. But anyone can realize that the risk is elevated a significant extent when no protection is used. Yes, Greg, even draws that we have dropped on the ground can save you in the event of a fall. The air, however, will not. Nor will the rope you’re trailing. One more piece of evidence nicely illustrates this point: no one would be making a big deal about this if it weren’t mentally harder than just sport climbing it (that route has seen hundreds of ascents, and I have yet to read a forum post about a new send). It is mentally harder because the consequences of failure are significantly higher.
That being established, my list reads as follows.
1) The Motherlode is located on private property and as such is an access sensitive area.
Many of you have been pointing out that soloing has never hurt access and you all are absolutely correct – soloing, in and of itself, has never hurt access, in large part because those who own the land do not understand climbing and do not monitor the activities that take place at the ‘lode or any other back area in this country.
If, however, someone died soloing, a police investigation would surely ensue. There is no way climbers (not even the Red River Gorge Climbers Coalition) could sweep such a thing under the carpet without Charmagne Oil finding out about it. And I guarantee you Charmagne (like any rational company) would close the area to climbing, even without a law suit.
The closing of the ‘lode would not only affect current and future generations. I know that some of you feel that the ‘lode is just bucket hauling, but honestly, the motherlode is like the capstone of sport climbing in the Red River Gorge. No other area rivals the Madness Cave for its shear magnitude. Thanatopsis is the hardest established route in the red. The undertow wall provides a sustained angle for a distance that no other area possesses. And the routes on the other side provide some of the best shorter less steep routes in the entire gorge.
Moreover, a tremendous amount of time and money went into developing this area. A amount of time and money only one who has developed an area can possibly imagine. Just look at the work that has been done to develop the areas around Sore Heel Parking in recent years. I can’t possibly name all of you that have done work so I won’t even try. Before acting recklessly it is wise to remember all of the work that individuals like Bill Ramsey, David Hume, Jeff Moll, Brian McCray, Porter Jarrard, Hugh Loeffler and many, many, many others put into developing the area you are jeopardizing.
2) No one needs to see a dead body.
I can only imagine (thankfully) what a body that fell from midway through the madness cave would look like after hitting the ground. Chances are, it would be mangled beyond recognition. No one needs to live with having witnessed that.
3) Think about parents.
This one and the last one need to least explanation. No one’s parents want them to die, and no one’s parents wouldn’t be devastated by the loss. Stop thinking about yourself for five minutes (I know this is hard at times, im not saying that I am not ever selfish) and think about your parent’s faces when they hear you died.
4) You’re dead.
The basic concept of this reason requires very little explanation, though one tangent point seems worth noting: throwing away all your life and your talents just to prove something to your self and others is quite stupid.
Greg, I have nothing but respect for you as a climber and as a friend. As you put it to me before you left the ground on your solo, “I’ve always liked you, man.â€
One basic idea is necessary to understand before I continue. I know climbing is dangerous. No Shit. I have been involved in the sport long enough to understand that. But anyone can realize that the risk is elevated a significant extent when no protection is used. Yes, Greg, even draws that we have dropped on the ground can save you in the event of a fall. The air, however, will not. Nor will the rope you’re trailing. One more piece of evidence nicely illustrates this point: no one would be making a big deal about this if it weren’t mentally harder than just sport climbing it (that route has seen hundreds of ascents, and I have yet to read a forum post about a new send). It is mentally harder because the consequences of failure are significantly higher.
That being established, my list reads as follows.
1) The Motherlode is located on private property and as such is an access sensitive area.
Many of you have been pointing out that soloing has never hurt access and you all are absolutely correct – soloing, in and of itself, has never hurt access, in large part because those who own the land do not understand climbing and do not monitor the activities that take place at the ‘lode or any other back area in this country.
If, however, someone died soloing, a police investigation would surely ensue. There is no way climbers (not even the Red River Gorge Climbers Coalition) could sweep such a thing under the carpet without Charmagne Oil finding out about it. And I guarantee you Charmagne (like any rational company) would close the area to climbing, even without a law suit.
The closing of the ‘lode would not only affect current and future generations. I know that some of you feel that the ‘lode is just bucket hauling, but honestly, the motherlode is like the capstone of sport climbing in the Red River Gorge. No other area rivals the Madness Cave for its shear magnitude. Thanatopsis is the hardest established route in the red. The undertow wall provides a sustained angle for a distance that no other area possesses. And the routes on the other side provide some of the best shorter less steep routes in the entire gorge.
Moreover, a tremendous amount of time and money went into developing this area. A amount of time and money only one who has developed an area can possibly imagine. Just look at the work that has been done to develop the areas around Sore Heel Parking in recent years. I can’t possibly name all of you that have done work so I won’t even try. Before acting recklessly it is wise to remember all of the work that individuals like Bill Ramsey, David Hume, Jeff Moll, Brian McCray, Porter Jarrard, Hugh Loeffler and many, many, many others put into developing the area you are jeopardizing.
2) No one needs to see a dead body.
I can only imagine (thankfully) what a body that fell from midway through the madness cave would look like after hitting the ground. Chances are, it would be mangled beyond recognition. No one needs to live with having witnessed that.
3) Think about parents.
This one and the last one need to least explanation. No one’s parents want them to die, and no one’s parents wouldn’t be devastated by the loss. Stop thinking about yourself for five minutes (I know this is hard at times, im not saying that I am not ever selfish) and think about your parent’s faces when they hear you died.
4) You’re dead.
The basic concept of this reason requires very little explanation, though one tangent point seems worth noting: throwing away all your life and your talents just to prove something to your self and others is quite stupid.
Greg, I have nothing but respect for you as a climber and as a friend. As you put it to me before you left the ground on your solo, “I’ve always liked you, man.â€
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Horatio Felacio
- Posts: 3338
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 7:26 pm
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gregkerzhner
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:09 pm
posted by Dingus on rockclimbing.comKid, ya gets beat into this gang, ya gets beat out. Tain't no 'behind the scenes' clean up crew to quietly advise you to avoid stepping in shit. We'll let you know s'soon as you do it.
Osman isn't so long departed that those who knew him well still don't ply these boards ya know? That's one of the things about this tribe... you can sit back and criticize 'those crazy fuckers' till one day it finally dawns upon you...
you are one of THEM. You are in the same tribe. You have more in common with that Wild Man who let himself run free, than you do the button down man looking over your shoulder from the back of your cube.
You are a climber. If you're in this game for good, let me be the first 'lifer' to encourage you to avoid this fatalistic thinking, that 'if only you can avoid the Dan Osman trap' you will climb long and prosper.
NO!
Revel in our mad men and women. Tell their stories! Live vicariously through their rash misadventures. Understand this...
you are a climber now. You've crossed the Rubicon of good sense. If you die from a freak top roping accident tomorrow afternoon, you will be regarded by your suvivors as every bit as reckless as Osman.
not exact parrallel (sp??) to the situation, but still the best thoughts on climbing risks i've ever read. not saying i have the balls to solo anythig but i'll not knock any one who does.
