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yo SCIN...just skip those bolts brotha, so those of us who are old farts can only break bones, not die.

Does any of this call into question the rock quality in Muir? There are plenty of cliffs of "brown sugar" but there is also some pretty damn hard sandstone in the red.

mcrib wrote:Does any of this call into question the rock quality in Muir? There are plenty of cliffs of "brown sugar" but there is also some pretty damn hard sandstone in the red.

The structural integrity of Corbin sandstone seems to vary radically -- not just from one area of the Red to another, but even a few feet away on the same wall.

Many oldtimer climbers to this area have commented that Muir rock is no better or worse than rock in other areas. However, any assessment made without a comprehensive testing of samples is pure conjecture.

Rick

I'm sorry to resurrect something that should stay dormant, but this entire issue has struck a nerve with me.

We all assume and accept the risks of climbing every time we use protection whether it's bolts, gear, ropes or a pad.

We know and accept that each piece will eventually fail.

We accept that when this failure occurs, there is a good chance injury or death may result.

Millions of falls are taken every year and some people get hurt. Lots of sprained ankles from falling into the rock and even more from hiking in or out. Only a few injuries happen when someone hits the ground. We all hear about them. We know the people and may have been part of their protection system.

How many of these happened because of some mechanical failure in the system? How many of them happened because of direct human error at the time of the climb/fall?

There is a lot of mank out there that people fall on that still holds fall after fall and now people are complaining about a few nuts not being tight. Is a hanger more likely to come off the wall because someone pulled it off the end of the screws or because the entire assembly came out? 99.99% of people would recognize that a hanger is about to fall off an unthreaded nut so they would tighten it before weighting it. Finger tight will hold a fall. How many people perform tests to see whether each bolt they clip is secured in solid rock to the depth of the bolt? Zero. We assume it's good based on our experience and assessment of the situation, rock surface and bolt condition.

I can think of a single controversial bolt that started a long series of complaints and verious responses that took many more falls than the average bolt. If/when this bolt finally fails there are 4 others that must fail before the climber reaches dirt. Seems pretty safe to me. I can also think of another bolt that has been loose for >2 years and nobody has sufficiently tightened it. This bolt is the first bolt on one of the most climbed routes in the Red and it is the only one preventing a groundfall. Why is nobody complaining about this bolt?

The unrealistic couch-quarterback expectations, the underappreciation for gifts making so much available to all, and the unrealistic expectations on this site are sickening sometimes.

Which bolt is that, MM?

why ya want to know meadows..you scared now?

I'm always scared when I'm climbing. "Elvis is in the house!!!!"

he's probably talking the first bolt on c-sharp. it's a spinner and seems like it always has been. but just the hanger is spinning, the bolt itself is tight.

Or maybe he's talking about the 3rd bolt on BBBB

yes..bbbb has been loose forever...you know, that place is a ticking time bomb.