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Bryan, I was staying out of this, but if you want the community's opinion, here's mine. I met Tim over the phone when I called him to put up a route in Muir and he had no problem with it. I met him personally down at the Red and every request I had for a route was accepted. I think it's because I'm one of the cool kids, but I'm from Michigan not Indiana, so maybe it's because I prefer trad and know how to bolt (although out of respect for Rick, I put up less routes than I would have liked because I prefer to leave routes natural even if that means an R rating. If I can't climb it that way, then I'll let someone else do it. It's a question of style, and I can see Rick's style of saftey. That's not my style, but I respect it. THat was what the original post was about.). I heard people talking about Tim being hard to deal with, but that's all hearsay. My personal experience with him has always been a positive one.

I also met Greg. He's a nice guy, very passionate and strong willed. He even attended my wedding at Miguels. I can see how these two people could butt heads, both being passionate about their beliefs. It's sad to see, but I think a public forum like this is just fine for airing things out. For one thing it clears the air and lets people move forward, in which ever way that is. It also, in one way, opens communication between the two and the whole community can act like a giant mediator. Both guys have done good things for the Red, which is important to remember.

Ok guys, guess it sounds like some opinions have changed. I have to admit myself that Tim and i have always gotten along really well and I have never had any kind of issues bolting routes at Muir. But i knew TIm prior to Muir and as you have probably gathered am very good friends with Greg as well. All that i ment was that i remember a time when a lot of climbers were very upset and discouraged at Tim because they thought they were being treated unfairly. I dont know if those people had a change of heart or whether they no longer care but the voice was not being represented in this dicussion. I was just curioius as to why. I hope it is because things have become more relaxed around Muir. But iv'e known Greg for 3 years and i have never really seen him pissed off about anything. So it makes me assume that whatever it took to make him do this must have been pretty bad.



Tim... not to kiss your ass or anything but I tuely respect you all the work you have done, not just at Muir but during the hundred and something years you have been climbing. I think its great that can juggle your work, your family, Muir and shit like this all at the same time. Sorry i pissed you off but don't worry couse im probably not going to post anything ever again.

like i said, go easy on me cause if you say something mean i probably wont be able to make eyecontact with you the next time we meet.

Look at all you whiney bitches posting about "relationships", "your experiences, and "this is sad"...

god damn happiest day of my life when;

two climbers from Indiana argue about sport routes.

I seriously think that is the funniest thing i have ever heard

lets go climb some cracks andy

NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!!

I think everyone has missed the point. Its Ricks land, if he wants another bolt or a bolt to be removed in a route, then He should get what he wants. The guy has spent alot of $, I think we all should respect what he wants..

come on joe..you are missing the point...we, as climbers, are entitled to bolt wherever and whatever we damn well please. it is our god given right to be visionary and put up sick mono-doight boulder problems with heinous sloper action....brah.

stay in the gym if you don't want to piss off land owners....they buy it, we abuse it.

I was under the impression that the only thing that kept you out of the "cool" category was the unfortunate fact that you live in Ohio.

Wow,
I thought all along I had to know the "cool kids" to be in the clique, now I see just for being a true Kentuckian I'm already in. That must be what all those state taxes are really for....