RRC Archives

Just a few (confirmed sitings of cool critters): Should we close these too? Where does it stop? How do you decide which rats and routes deserve to be saved? See my point? Of course, I love these creatures of the forest, but I love climbing too! Just be kind to our forest friends please. We CAN all coexist peacefully.

1. Jungle Beat - wood rat
2. Fuzzy Undercling - previous home to bats
3. BBBB - flying squirrel
4. Infectious - wood rat
5. Aquaduck Pocket - wood rat
6. Big Money - flying squirrel
7. Creature Feature - wood rat
8. Pogue Ethics - wood rat
9. No Return - wood rat
10. The Underling - wood rat
11. Resurrection - flying squirrel
12. Cruising Lane - wood rat
13. No Place Like Home - wood rat
14. The Shining - wood rat
15. Vision - wood rat
16. Casual Viewing - wood rat
17. Strick 9 - wood rat
18. Bongo - wood rat
19. Bedtime for Bonzo - wood rat
20. Diamond in the Crack - wood rat
21. Snake - wood rat
22. Five Finger Discount - wood rat
23. Hard Left - wood rat
24. The Return of Chris Snyder - wood rat
25. C Sharp or B Flat - wood rat

I also have a journal and many stories from my climbing partners and others. There are quite a few I can think of at Muir Valley also. In fact one of the more popular climbs had a dead wood rat on a very small ledge halfway through the route.

We saw a flock/gaggle/parade(?) of wild turkeys at Jazz Rock this weekend. Kinda cool.

shannon on rrgcc.org wrote:It does appear to be true that these woodrats do live on or near many routes we climb on--I can think of a dozen routes off the top of my head. They are active all year long (they do not hibernate like bats or bears) and they give birth from March to September so there's doesn't seem to be any good time to climb versus not climb.

t bone wrote:I had one chase me up the 2nd pitch of the Underling. The wood rat has hair on its tail. common rats have no hair, or at least that is what i heard. They are all over the red. Almost every big ledge has rat crap somwhere on it.

rhunt on rrgcc.org wrote:I recall a woodrat nest at the motherlode a few years ago. It was on one of the 5.11 "warm-ups", the nest was in a key hold, a juggy slot. The rat must have had babbies because it would bite you if you stuck your fingers in the slot. The nest isn't there anymore so I assume the rat found a new home away from us climbers...the green horn rat will probably do the same.

Right on Busty, we've seen some wild turkeys down at Muir too. I definitely don't think we should close the area because of it though.

If you will click on this website, and scroll down to 2 D R5 you will see that the Alleghany (=Eastern) woodrat is on the EPA's endangered and threatened speicies candidate review. Meaning, it will eventually be listed because of its dwindling population in other states. In Kentucky, its maintaining its population, but with all these new lax laws on mining and construction in eastern ky, the status is currently being reviewed.

As to your list you just posted, you are on not telling the truth, and are just making up climbs to make up for your stupid posts. They only make homes on ledges and heucos and caves etc that are large enough for their usual basketball sized nests. Infectious and Acquaduct Pocket have no such habitat. I am not going to fight every climb you listed, I just know you are inflating the truth.

I never post on this website, because I hate the stupid remarks that get posted and the attitudes such as yours J-Rock depress me. But this issue hits me hard. I have worked with endangered species for the last 2 years in the private environmental consulting world, and now with the state, and I cannot believe someone would even threat to kill this animal. It makes me sick really. For all of you reading these posts, please take this issue seriously. Avoid the nest and the rat, and warn others who might not know. And educate the public!

http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-SPECIES ... pr-42.html

Actually I am grossly underinflating the truth. Also, I am very much against the killing of these animals. I have nothing to do with that. I don't even kill spiders or bugs. And, I am one who truly appreciates the work you have done to protect and preserve endangered and threatened species. I thank you with all of my heart. I'm am trying to do the same for our climbing routes.

By the way, I do not have a "who cares" attitude: I've given issues such as this considerable thought and I've personally decided not to develop several climbing routes and areas due to concerns for nesting animals.

Check the online guide for Green Horn for education and public awareness.

Before Infectious was bolted it was top-roped from webbing attached to a tree above the climb. A wood rat lived on this ledge and gnawed through the webbing. I sware on my love for climbing that I am telling the truth. And there was a rat on Aquaduck Pocket about 6-7 years ago (which is still more recent than that EPA review). I don't know if it's still there now. He's probably moved on. It's estimated that there are over 3,000 miles of cliffline in eastern Kentucky. What percentage of that is developed or ever will be?

I've been on several of those climbs relatively recently. There aren't any wood rats living on them.

Listen to Mandala, at least she's a professional who knows what she's talking about, unlike the rest of us who have posted.

Perhaps wood rats have lived on all of those climbs at some point and are no longer there. That actually shores up the point that we should consider behaving in a more cautious manner. Even speculating that we should close entire clifflines where it's likely they are to be is not what anyone is saying. The point is to act responsibly now so that doesn't happen.

This is a serious issue. Maybe we should leave the dang creature alone for the winter and then contact a climber who is actually a scientist, like Mandala, and see if we can relocate the woodrat in the spring.

****Not an offical RRGCC position, just my thoughts******

This is a tricky area, no doubt. Where to draw lines? I mean, we kill wasps and spiders when they are on routes with little thought, climb routes with snakes on or near them. Lichen and moss is removed while "cleaning" a route. Posion Ivy is removed in mass. Sometimes I wonder who we are to draw the lines and say it is OK to smash a spider but wrong to impact a woodrat. On green horn, I don't remember the nest being there when I did the route last spring. So, if he moved in after the route was being climbed, then I would say we should just try to limit use of that route. Maybe not closed, but if we can just be kinda resonable, then I think he will come out of the winter just fine.

Personally, I put the route on my "closed" list last time, because it smelled so bad. And the route, while worthy, just isn't that cool to me.

We in the BOD are talking about this issue, but we also don't have all the answers, so feedback and input are welcome at the rrgcc forums or here.

Wes

My reasons and motivations for feeling this way are not selfish. As I said before, I've already climbed this fine route and I'm not going to be climbing it again. I'm trying to think of others who have not yet had this pleasure. Also, I'm being mindful of the future. I don't feel it is necessary to start closing routes or clifflines each time somebody spots a rat. Contrary to popular belief on this board they are all over the Red. Climbing access is something that I care very deeply and passionately about and I will never give up fighting for this cause. It seems that a comment on the route description would be a more appropriate response than to start making recommendations to close routes.

shannon on rrgcc.org wrote:Having said all of that...to err on the side of caution in favor of the woodrats would be to recommend not climbing at all at places like Solar Collector, Shady Grove, a large portion of Dive By, etc., given that there are woodrats living at all those places and human presence (loud noises, voices, vibrations, smells, etc.) most likely disturbs them.