SADDAM CAPTURED
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Guest
I suggest reading "Lies - and the lying liars who tell them" by Al Franken....
whether you are a righty or a lefty or a fence-sitter...it's good political fun - and though he is definitely slamming the righties - I kinda of took from it more the whole ridiculous nature of Right v. Left - because it's all perception-based anyway.
What is Right and what is Left (well, more like what is FAR right and what is FAR left) is really dependent on WHERE YOU are standing on that sliding scale.
That of course is just my perception...which is based on nothing by my personal beliefs and so is totally up for retalitory comments by someone who doesn't agree with me.
PJ O'Rourke also provides good times around the paperback: "Age and Guile: Beat Youth, Innocence, and a Bad Haircut". Ask for it for Christmas.
I guess I like my politics with a side of wit and sarcasm. Jon Stewart *sigh*
whether you are a righty or a lefty or a fence-sitter...it's good political fun - and though he is definitely slamming the righties - I kinda of took from it more the whole ridiculous nature of Right v. Left - because it's all perception-based anyway.
What is Right and what is Left (well, more like what is FAR right and what is FAR left) is really dependent on WHERE YOU are standing on that sliding scale.
That of course is just my perception...which is based on nothing by my personal beliefs and so is totally up for retalitory comments by someone who doesn't agree with me.
PJ O'Rourke also provides good times around the paperback: "Age and Guile: Beat Youth, Innocence, and a Bad Haircut". Ask for it for Christmas.
I guess I like my politics with a side of wit and sarcasm. Jon Stewart *sigh*
"I enjoyed a Guinness after I got back home from Palm Sunday Mass." - Captain Static
"Listen, you heard what I said. Do you want me to donate or not charlie. Suck it up and procreate." - Andrew
"Listen, you heard what I said. Do you want me to donate or not charlie. Suck it up and procreate." - Andrew
I think that what Merrick meant by 'hearsay' was 'crap you heard on Fox'. (Technically, none of us were at any Whitehouse meetings, so, yes, it's hearsay).
Information on Clinton/Gore's transformation of the US military:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/ ... tack01.htm
Regarding Rumsfeld's focus during 2000/01 on force structure review, you can find endless articles. Of course, if you were paying attention at the time, it will all be familiar.
The quotes from Oakley and Bremer come from a Washington Post article that covers a lot of the Clinton/Gore administration counter-terrorist actions:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... Found=true
(Plus, the Washington Post rocks for having older articles available for free!)
Regarding the numbers for terrorist deaths under Reagan vs. Bush I + Clinton/Gore, it's something I read somewhere - but I honestly think it's factually true (sadly). If anyone has a problem with the assertion that the Reagan administration funneled weapons and money to Islamic militants in Afghanistan, sold weapons to Iran and supported Saddam, I guess I can rustle up a bunch of sources - but we're all pretty clear on how that administration planted the seeds of Sept. 11th in their quest to overthrow 'the evil empire'.
Here's an article that discusses the al Qaeda busts in the aftermath of the first WTC bombing:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/ ... 0376.shtml
It has information on how the bust of the WTC bombers led to breaking up plots to blow up NY area tunnels and a bridge, the FBI headquarters, and the UN headquarters in one day back in 1993. It also discusses how the Clinton/Gore administration worked with Pakistan to get Ramzi Yousef and foil an al Qaeda plot to blow up 12 airliners flying from the Philippines to the US, which would have killed about 4,000 people.
Gosh, maybe the Clinton/Gore administration really didn't do anything to foil al Qaeda? (By the way, the 'aspirin factory' was in Sudan. The cruise missile target in Afghanistan was the last known location of ObL at a training camp.)
ugh. I have to get some sleep. More later. Here's a hint on finding more sources for what I was talking about: www.google.com
Information on Clinton/Gore's transformation of the US military:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/ ... tack01.htm
Regarding Rumsfeld's focus during 2000/01 on force structure review, you can find endless articles. Of course, if you were paying attention at the time, it will all be familiar.
The quotes from Oakley and Bremer come from a Washington Post article that covers a lot of the Clinton/Gore administration counter-terrorist actions:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... Found=true
(Plus, the Washington Post rocks for having older articles available for free!)
Regarding the numbers for terrorist deaths under Reagan vs. Bush I + Clinton/Gore, it's something I read somewhere - but I honestly think it's factually true (sadly). If anyone has a problem with the assertion that the Reagan administration funneled weapons and money to Islamic militants in Afghanistan, sold weapons to Iran and supported Saddam, I guess I can rustle up a bunch of sources - but we're all pretty clear on how that administration planted the seeds of Sept. 11th in their quest to overthrow 'the evil empire'.
Here's an article that discusses the al Qaeda busts in the aftermath of the first WTC bombing:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/ ... 0376.shtml
It has information on how the bust of the WTC bombers led to breaking up plots to blow up NY area tunnels and a bridge, the FBI headquarters, and the UN headquarters in one day back in 1993. It also discusses how the Clinton/Gore administration worked with Pakistan to get Ramzi Yousef and foil an al Qaeda plot to blow up 12 airliners flying from the Philippines to the US, which would have killed about 4,000 people.
Gosh, maybe the Clinton/Gore administration really didn't do anything to foil al Qaeda? (By the way, the 'aspirin factory' was in Sudan. The cruise missile target in Afghanistan was the last known location of ObL at a training camp.)
ugh. I have to get some sleep. More later. Here's a hint on finding more sources for what I was talking about: www.google.com
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Guest
(1)Well, not technically,really. That is what the definition of the word is.Really.
(2) Honestly, if you wanted me to consider your arguements, you should try not to come off so condescending and bitter. No one likes being talked down to.
(3) All of this talk of "Clinton instituted this policy/Clinton did this". It's all a bunch of b/s. You know why?
(A)Because actually Clinton gutted the military. It has been U.S. policy to have a standing force strength large enough to fight a war on two fronts. Like in WW2. We are the only country throughout the history of time who has ever fought a war on two fronts and won. It has been policy since then to have a military this strong. But not under the Clinton administration.
(B) Clinton hated the military, and the military hated him. You can see it in the way the troops recieved Mrs. Clinton this past Thanksgiving.
(C)The Big weapons contractors Lockheed/Martin ect. Almost went out of business under the Clinton administration. I remember several mergings and filings by these companies.
(D) Look this up. I think its true. When did "satelite" bombing first recieve its funding for research? I think you will see it was during the Reagan administration.
(E) The sum total of effort by Clinton to fight terrorism was to "Tomahawk" an asprin factory in Afghanistan.
I'd write more but I gotta go to class.....
(2) Honestly, if you wanted me to consider your arguements, you should try not to come off so condescending and bitter. No one likes being talked down to.
(3) All of this talk of "Clinton instituted this policy/Clinton did this". It's all a bunch of b/s. You know why?
(A)Because actually Clinton gutted the military. It has been U.S. policy to have a standing force strength large enough to fight a war on two fronts. Like in WW2. We are the only country throughout the history of time who has ever fought a war on two fronts and won. It has been policy since then to have a military this strong. But not under the Clinton administration.
(B) Clinton hated the military, and the military hated him. You can see it in the way the troops recieved Mrs. Clinton this past Thanksgiving.
(C)The Big weapons contractors Lockheed/Martin ect. Almost went out of business under the Clinton administration. I remember several mergings and filings by these companies.
(D) Look this up. I think its true. When did "satelite" bombing first recieve its funding for research? I think you will see it was during the Reagan administration.
(E) The sum total of effort by Clinton to fight terrorism was to "Tomahawk" an asprin factory in Afghanistan.
I'd write more but I gotta go to class.....
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Guest
Exactly. Thank you, Tom.tomdarch wrote:Regarding Sandy's comment - I'm pleasantly surprised that you actually used a fairly complete quote. If you worked for Fox, you would have cut out "in a way". She was saying that while it was good that Saddam was captured, it has some negative imapacts - particularly in how it will help W's campaign to actually win an election for president. As she said - it's partially disappointing.dirt wrote:The one thing that I have noticed is that liberals who still have a sore ass over the Florida election scandal will cheer for a despot (Saddam and even in some cases OBL) to "spite" the current administration. Case in point, look at Sandys' postShe thinks its a disappiontment that a murdering tyrant is going to have to answer for his crimes. Shame on you Sandy.Sandy wrote:in a way it's disappointing. This will help Dubya at the polls.
Nicely stated.tomdarch wrote:As for anyone supporting ObL - let's see some links. There are probably quite a few instances of people pointing out the value of understanding what's going on in his head and the heads of his supporters, but I doubt that you'll find any serious people actually supporting him or his 'cause'. The lack of understanding (or ignoring Sun-Tzu's dictate to "know the enemy") is one of the biggest problems with the Bush II administration. To say that ObL "hates freedom" is wildly ignorant of Islam and useless in taking action against him.
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Guest
And that is "spin"
Tom, you seem to have more resourses at hand than I do. Do me the favor of showing me when the funding for the "joint munitions" was originally funded. I bet you a testicle that it was during the Regan/Bush era, not during the Clinton "downsizing"
Put your money where your mouth/balls are..............
Tom, you seem to have more resourses at hand than I do. Do me the favor of showing me when the funding for the "joint munitions" was originally funded. I bet you a testicle that it was during the Regan/Bush era, not during the Clinton "downsizing"
Put your money where your mouth/balls are..............