RRC Archives

Fair enough Clif. I certainly don't know all of the politics at play at the Red. I agree it is silly if developers choose to buy cheap bolts over saving up for more expensive hardware, especially since they should know better. Regardless, I'm not out there bolting so I don't mind chipping in for other people to bolt, in addition to donating to the land owners. Especially if there's a chance to win some sweet swag!

1.) No posts have been changed to alter any facts.
2.) The Fixed Gear Initiative has not acted as catalyst to developing more rapidly.
2010- 87 routes
2011- 72 routes
2012- 156 routes
2013- 272 routes (Miller Fork Purchase)
2014- 223

The RRG FGEI had our first fundraiser for SS bolts at the end of Nov. 2013. The order was not placed until December and then distributed in the beginning of 2014.

3.) Cost is a huge factor, despite Clif arguing that developers should just do what's right.

Cost of a zinc plated bolt= $2.25 http://rapbolting.com/power-bolt-carbon-steel-3.75
Cost of a SS bolt= $13.69 http://www.climbtechgear.com/power-bolt ... ess-steel/

4.) Creating the Initiative allowed us to reduce costs by economy of scale and increased leverage to negotiate

5.) The Initiative actively encourages and seeks to help developers that are willing to rebolt. As stated, materials are not the limiting factor due to our partnership with the American Safe Climbing Association. (ASCA).

6.) The RRG FGEI is not political. It seeks to provide sustainable bolting and rebolting to all publicly accessible crags in the RRG. That includes DBNF, Muir Valley, and RRGCC property.

7.) There is to date, nearly unlimited potential for future development in the RRG. Those willing to navigate access issues to obtain permission to bolt will reap the reward.

8.) Clif is continual complainer that has had little else to offer the community.

hi Ian, i appreciate the thoughtful response. i would like to clarify a few points, i'll use your numbering-
1.) this is not the same as denying that post may have been altered. i just thought there had been a change in emphasis from REbolting to new route development.
2.) i wouldn't diagree, but that does not mean that subsidizing the costs of (I AGREE with this) properly bolting a route, which has the added benefits of encouraging others to learn the craft, slowing development down, and reducing whatever burden caretakers have felt (mentioned repeatedly in the 1st link of your op)
3.) i agree, which is why i'm trying to leverage that fact instead of undermining it.
4.) excellent
5.) i am surprised ive missed the publicity notice.
6.) that sounds reassuring, why not just donate to the ASCA? i didn't see this organization mention in the op... i apologize if i overlooked it.
7.) are you referring to forest service land? if the rrgcc is now obsolete it is the end of an era-
8.) fair enough, where did i complain?

edit 2/11
6.) controlling the exchange of ideas through facebook is political. today is wed. feb. 11 about 9 pm.

Nearly unlimited potential... Really?

I think this is a great cause and that everyone who climbs should contribute and CAN NOT BELIEVE that there are so many active and concerned people taking time and putting in so much effort. My gratitude to all involved.

dustonian wrote:Perhaps your feelings could be better expressed in a collection of poems

i miss you dustin, happy valentine's day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g6--QoPsDM

and, as if it's necessary, a colleague of the director of the rrgcc/access fund/eku survey writes:
Many assume the Soviet Union represented a social experiment emanating from Marx's thought. If this is so, then the abuses and failures of the Soviet system are also assumed to be the result of flaws in Marx's ideas. However, if a direct causal relationship between Leninist-Stalinism and Marx's communism is not accepted, it should be possible to demonstrate that a qualitative transformation of Marx's thought occurred after his death. This transformation, rather than Marx's own theories, culminated in the development of an authoritarian bureaucratic state. A field of associated statements exists that allows us to trace this transformation in which communist politics was altered into a rigid and formulaic dialectic stripped of Marx's flexibility, humanism and concerns over alienation and freedom.

so I ask, is this complaining?

Cliff, it's really hard to believe in any of your understanding any of the situations in the RED! Do you really think that the climber coalition was formed because of a 'Crag Shortage' ? Seems you haven't been a part of the community very long!

YNP1, if you don't think there is unlimited potential, you haven't seen much of the DBNF between Morehead the Breaks and the Big South Fork!

Ha, if you only knew how much rock I have seen in that area, BB!

But I have not seen any new rock popping up... Which means it is not unlimited.

I hope the RRGCC does not get there hands on a lot of that rock.

Bruisebrother wrote:Cliff, it's really hard to believe in any of your understanding any of the situations in the RED! Do you really think that the climber coalition was formed because of a 'Crag Shortage' ? Seems you haven't been a part of the community very long!

yes, well, the ten years before dustonian and ian were pretty good. and no, it was more the FS issue with fixed gear but the effect being climbing access, a distinction without a difference, as they say.