RRC Archives

dustonian wrote:BTW Arty you got the start of EBGB wrong on your little topo drawing... it is much further left (you can see the bolts in the photo).

But you can't start that far left unless you can levitate or you have a flying carpet. You have to start on the holds that my line indicates, even if you are Andrew Wheatly. The start of Kelly is not even visible on my photo which I obviously clipped from the previous photo of EGBG.

climb2core wrote:Consider reversing the scenario. Megan and Art see out up a cool new trad line. It climbs mostly on crack, but wanders across some face climbing. Then Mike and Andrew come across the cliff and see potential for a sport line that crosses a third of the same terrain and uses the crack for a bit. So they bolt it without approaching the FA crew. How would you feel Art and Megan? Betting you would be pissed as hell, and justifiably so.

Several thoughts:

Trad does not get a trump card on any rock that happens to have some crack in it.
EGBG is not a not a bolted crack, but largely a face climb.
Respect the the FA, Johnny come lately.

I just want to make sure we are clear. I am not upset that they FA'ed the trad line, I am upset that they publicly complained about the sport line before contacting the FA and saying "Whats up with your route, we are concerned, do you mind if the name of our route is making fun of you".

They speak of ethics... what a hypocritical joke.

climb2core wrote:Megan and Art see out up a cool new trad line. It climbs mostly on crack, but wanders across some face climbing.

No, the trad route follows a crack with obvious solid protection from start to finish.

climb2core wrote: Several thoughts:

Trad does not get a trump card on any rock that happens to have some crack in it.
EGBG is not a not a bolted crack, but largely a face climb.
Respect the the FA, Johnny come lately.

Your "thoughts" are a bit off-base: Simply climbing the line with traditional pro does respect the FA, it is not like they chopped the bolts (although this would certainly have happened at many other places). By contrast, bolting a traditional route entail drilling the rock and installing permanent hardware, which irrevocably alters the climb. The two scenarios are very different.

I clipped several bolts on EGBG from perfectly protectable hand jams and finger locks. Not a big deal to me, but I would estimate it is the neighborhood of 50% naturally protectable. This is around my personal threshhold for deciding if a route is going to be sport or traditional/mixed.

Safely protected traditional routes are relatively few and far between relative to good 75%+ unprotectable faces in the Red. Trad routes are something of a precious commodity at our local crags and as such as they should be preserved and protected. By contrast there is no shortage of good sport climbing in the RRG, so why the need to bolt the few well-protected trad lines that do exist?

Maybe I don't understand the name, is "R Kelly Ethics" offensive? Just seems like another slight and moderately humorous route name to me.

dustin, that there is the best argument I have ever heard for preserving the cracks....and one with which I agree.

dustonian wrote:Maybe I don't understand the name, is "R Kelly Ethics" offensive? Just seems like another slight and moderately humorous route name to me.

Sounds like questioning the ethics of the FA by comparing him to a pedophile who pees on people. Art is a dick.

pigsteak wrote:dustin, that there is the best argument I have ever heard for preserving the cracks....and one with which I agree.

Wow, common ground. That's pretty cool. I have never had an ethical beef with bolting, I just enjoying traditional climbing and personally dislike the aesthetic of a line of shiny bolts right next to a perfectly protectable crack/cracks (whether they are horizontal or vertical in nature makes no difference)... and in the Red sadly there aren't that many good ones around really. BTW, it seems you've been doing quite a bit of trad climbing yourself anyway lately, no??

Andrew wrote:

dustonian wrote:Maybe I don't understand the name, is "R Kelly Ethics" offensive? Just seems like another slight and moderately humorous route name to me.

Sounds like questioning the ethics of the FA by comparing him to a pedophile who pees on people.

Wow, did R. Kelly really do that?? Hilarious. I think they just picked that name because of his album "Chocolate Factory". I personally preferred Art's name "Theobromine"...

dustonian wrote:

Andrew wrote:

dustonian wrote:Maybe I don't understand the name, is "R Kelly Ethics" offensive? Just seems like another slight and moderately humorous route name to me.

Sounds like questioning the ethics of the FA by comparing him to a pedophile who pees on people.

Wow, did R. Kelly really do that?? Hilarious. I think they just picked that name because of his album "Chocolate Factory". I personally preferred Art's name "Theobromine"...

Scientific terms for routes are played out. It jumped the shark with the misspelling of Toxicodendron.

HAHAHA!! You're right, that theme is so early-season 2012.