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What makes all these people that have actually climbed the route think they have a say? I think the people that walk by it without giving much of a glance in the route's direction have a much better understanding of the value of this route.

Kind of reminds me of the people that defend Naked Lunch, they are clueless! Clearly the guys that saw that the new line was between two pre-existing routes in guide were correct in classifying it as a squeeze job. No need to go get on routes before you bash them right? Oh and while we are at it, wasn't one of the arguements against Nuthugger that it was not in the same grade range as the routes around it? Well someone should let Shadow know that his new line in the Madness cave does not fit with the grade spectrum of that wall either.

In all seriousness though,thanks to Josh, Shadow, Kipp, Dustin, and all the other guys ruining our crags with their bolts. Also, will Nuthugger ever get update to reflect the first ascentionist and the name he gave the route?

Does anyone feel like there is a grey area here. I think bolting a new rout at a well established area is ultimately a judgement call. I don't like to see gridbolted areas, its kind of annoying when I have to worry about the nearby belayer getting swung into me when his climber falls. Other judgement calls are weather the rout will add to an area. If you are in a well established area (or even an area within an area ie. madness cave, verses the yards of unbolted rock at the load) are there questions that should be asked: I am standing between 2 great 4 or 5 star routs, will adding a 2 or 3 star rout actually add anything to the area? or will it just increase crowding issues? Virgin rock is virgin rock, bolt the crap out of it and you will get several amazing routs and great new areas. Well established areas on the other hand probably require some thought, a 10 where there are no 10s, slab where things are mostly overhung, a rout where routs are separated, probably adds value. Ultimately, its all opinions, and if you don't care about what the masses think, then do what you will.

kafish2 wrote:In all seriousness though,thanks to Josh, Shadow, Kipp, Dustin, and all the other guys ruining our crags with their bolts.

+1