RRC Archives

stix wrote:that's all cute and all rick, but at the end of the day it is up to YOU. the only thing that has ever been agreed upon on this site is that the landowner holds the almighty trump card. my favorite climbing area is not open and will not be open any time in the near future so it is in fact not up to ME. seems silly to put the responsibility on US to meet the financial needs of a place that has such ridiculous extravagances like 2 way radios, camera's, massive parking lots, roads being moved, concrete bridges, etc. it's your right to do with your property what you want and i understand people aren't donating enough to meet how you want to run your property, but this argument is played out...it IS NOT going to change. it has been an issue at every climbing area with an optional use fee. YOU know that climbers aren't going to come forward with the cash and YOU keep choosing to add to expenses of your property. there are other options that i admittedly don't know the ins and outs of well enough to argue, but it's silly to keep going through the same motions and expecting a different outcome. to say that muir valley staying open is in anyone's hands but YOURS is bullshit.

Wow, are you always so pleasant to be around? You seem to have some valid points but most people learn how to make themselves heard without coming across as a dick by 2nd or 3rd grade... Apparently you are still working on it. People might actually start listening to you if you learn how to communicate like an adult.

style and substance. that post has more than most people are comfortable with.

ok, let's quote movies now.

"Cut of your head and shit down your throat" or maybe "What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? A lie. A lie and we have to be merciful."

This what Col. Nathan R. Jessup would to say.

Son, we live in a world that has climbing walls, and those walls have to be supported by men with donations . Who's gonna do it? You? You, entitled climber? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Roadside, and you curse Torrent Falls. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That two way radios, while expensive, probably saved lives. And the full aid station’s existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want these climbing walls you need these climbing walls. We use words like donation, appreciate, and support. We use these words as the backbone of a decade spent providing Muir Valley. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who climbs and belays under the cliffs of the valley that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a donation box, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

I'm not sure I've heard of many causes asking for donations that do not have a well-defined monetary goal posted next to it. I associate "do your part" with donations, but since there's no goal, it's impossible to see what my part would be. Is it going to be asked every year? Is a donation expected to increase every year? Without any kind of end game it is difficult to see how my donation (and my role) fits into the larger picture of Muir Valley.

These donations are really investments from climbers. Any investor is going to want to see what goal his or her investment will secure and what fraction of that goal will be covered by the investment.

What are the approximated costs of cameras?
What are the approximated costs of radios?
Concrete bridges? Signs? Access roads? Parking?

These kinds of questions will let climbers see how their contributions will be working to keep Muir Valley in its present state.

The way it is currently, there's no measure of progress being made by a donation. Look at Wikipedia's way of asking for donations: They always have that little thermometer bar. People can see exactly how their donation will work into reaching the ultimate goal. I think having such a reference point is very important.

EricDorsey wrote:Wow, are you always so pleasant to be around?

pretty much man. i had an extremely low tolerance for bullshit and authority growing up and got in a lot of trouble because of it. then i had a good run there for a good number of years when i found a community that i could work out a niche in down here in the hills where i loved to climb and my family was from. the bullshit to genuine factor was quite low and i found that i could shrug off the frustrations and grow as a person and climber. i made my best friends and gained a family of climbers that i love being around (believe it or not there's a bunch on this site). then a few years ago the bullshit ratio around here started getting out of hand and i feel much better about myself if i say what i want to say how i want to say it. i certainly didn't throw my whole life into the climbing community in the backwoods of eastern ky to have watch what i say on an internet climbing forum. it doesn't matter if what i say on here is heard or not. i'm not making decisions or changing any minds. i came here to get away from all the overly sensitive politics, talk shit to my friends when they're being bitches, and climb as many of the good days in my life as i can. the coalition and kiss asses can deal with censoring themselves. in the mean time i'm gonna say what i think needs saying whether it's heard or not.

Fundraising 101:

http://www.ncstac.org/content/materials ... Basics.pdf

Excerpts from above:

4. Setting realistic fundraising goals
Again, fundraising goals and organizational goals must be set at the same time; each impacts the other. Too often, an organization sets program goals that require funds far too great for the organization to generate. When setting fundraising goals, many questions need to be answered, including:
• How much money is needed to fund specific programs and services, as well as pay for day-to-day operations of the organization?
• Which current income source generates the largest share of income? Is that source expected to shrink? To grow? To remain the same?
• Which income sources are the most reliable? What can you really count on?
• Which income sources are the least reliable? What might be “here today, gone tomorrow”?
• Which income sources, regardless of size, have the most growth potential for your organization?

8. Writing a case statement
A case statement is a concise document explaining your organization’s activities and funding needs to potential donors. The case statement tells potential donors who you are, what you do (and are trying to do), and why. It shows that your organization will steward the donor’s contribution in a responsible manner. Every prospective donor will (or should) ask, “Why should I support your organization?” The case statement will provide the answer to that question in a concise, convincing manner. The case statement also serves as a useful tool for self-assessment. The process of writing your case statement forces you to examine your organization’s programs and to develop convincing arguments that those programs are worth supporting.


If we fail to plan, we plan to fail...

13-3-37

Problem solved.

If you climb there donate, because you are enjoying Muir valley climbing. You don't have to agree with how it is run, what politics are involved or any other crap. You are the person that practices LNT, carrying out all your waste, not using the toilets to add to costs incurred. You stay on trails, are nice to people, help teach safe climbing by example. If it closes tomorrow you have done your part at the very least by chipping in a few bucks. Your investment is a day pass to enjoy, it is the very least you should.

If you agree with the Webers vision and climb there donate more because it is going to cost more to maintain at the level that the Webers want it to be. The improvements made for safety in Muir valley are important to the Webers, they are extremely passionate about that for sure. Understand that you are going to need to pitch in quite a bit more to offset the costs of the emergency road, toilets, etc., because it will never IMO be funded by the majority of climbers. There will always be the need for large donors to maintain the facilities.

Just my opinion,
Ken

Liz_Weber wrote:Muir Valley is NOT in danger of closing in the foreseeable future. If climbers chose not to donate, we will take that as a lack of interest in having Muir Valley as a long term climbing resource.

Liz

weber wrote: To create a realistic, workable succession plan, it is prudent to first gain assurance that one will be able to secure financial resources. This is just basic good business practice.

Rick

It seems from these comments, that the Weber's are carefully watching how the community financially supports Muir Valley in the immediate future. In my opinion only, (absolutely no factual basis)... It seems that they would be willing to provide an opportunity for long term access (generations) to climbing at Muir if and ONLY IF we show support NOW. Almost like they are the mortgage lender, carefully watching the credit history and financial position of the potential buyer to determine if they are a good bet for being able to financially pay for and maintain the property.

I would ask the following of the Weber's to assist the climbing community with securing the long term future and viability of Muir for climbing:

Please provide clear communication to the community of the financial commitment that will affirm your belief that the community IS interested in Muir Valley as a long term climbing resource.

If you have a vision for how you see the succession of ownership of Muir Valley, please share it.

In short, if you can put to the community clear and objective measures, you put the ball squarely in our court. And then the rest is up to us.

Again, we can't say it enough...

Thank you for all you have done and continue to do.

Ian

Ian - I think you hit it spot on.

But the Webers really don't owe us anything; not an expense account or future plan, not a fundraising goal or target to hit. Those things are for us to come up with and the challenge that is currently in front of us. I see it like this: When you go to someone's house for dinner, do you bring something to contribute or just show up to eat? When you work a job, do you do the minimum effort required or do you excel so when a job promotion is available you will be considered? That's kinda where we are now. We need to bring donations to Muir when we visit and we need to show our support for Muir now so when the long term plan is being developed we will have proven our abilities to sustain Muir as a climbing area after the Webers have passed.

It's obvious that running Muir takes cash and man power but the Webers aren't asking us to foot the bill or do all the work, they never have.

I believe we need to begin asking ourselves some questions like:
- What do we think is an appropriate dollar amount per person per visit?
- Or for those that don't even climb at Muir but rugularly climb in the PMRP or RRG proper, what do we think is an appropriate dollar amount to support a private climbing area that indirectly affects anyone's climbing experience in RRG? How can we gain this kind of support from these folks?
- If every climber gave $1 per visit, we wouldn't be where we are now. What can we do to grow awareness for individual monetary support (because signs and web announcements clearly aren't working)?
- What kind of fundraiser(s) should we have and at what capacity?
- What kind of ideas can we come up with for a sustainable, long term plan for support?
- Is FoMV understood by climbers? If not, what can we do to change that?

The good news is that we have time, Muir isn't closing anytime soon. In the spring there will be fundraisers when visitors return to the Red.
So what do we do now? And what are some logical steps to define our goals and create a plan to meet them?

Michelle