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Nope, there is a big difference because those are annual or semi-annual well-organized events with hundreds of volunteers to improve issues on which an overwhelming majority agree. The Lode incident was a half-ass effort by a loud minority to improve/make worse a minor issue which will not be sustained over time.

I thought you'd say that..in that case, I'll scream even louder. PD's are a really bad idea. lazy climbers making their "sport" even lazier. only if all you pro PD's folks agree that bolting trad lines is also OK will I even agree with your "justification" for leaving this visual trash on the walls. come on, cracks need to get moving..this ain't 1997 ya know.

I'm seeing "fixed draws" and "project draws" interchanged here. They aren't the same thing. Fixed gear, IMO, has a quinklink involved...project gear doesn't. As soon as someone can give me an official sanctioned definition of "fixed" gear...then maybe we can actually have a discussion. This is ridiculous. I'm so glad the Red isn't my local climbing area.

-Blake

GTFO

This is really super easy to fix. There needs to be no education. Start stripping draws left overnight. I'm going to start taking draws off every route I get on. If you don't want your draws missing, don't leave 'em. Simple. When this happens enough, People will stop leaving them. If you have a problem with that, feel free to get over it.

Rotarypwr345704 wrote: I'm going to start taking draws off every route I get on. If you don't want your draws missing, don't leave 'em. Simple.

http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/robbing-sport

^Yup. I remember seeing that. Anyway. Don't want your shit missing? Don't leave it.

Unlike troll man though, you can have them back. I don't really care to have anyone else's quickdraws, I can buy my own.

What will you do when you encounter PD's? Have you sent all those 13's removing other people's gear and/or cleaning your gear at the end of each day? How are you planning on returning the gear? Are you leaving at the chains, the base, or Miguels? What are your projects? Why do you get to determine the ethics for the community?

And I ask all this, but also want you to know... I have never left up draws over-night at the Red and I don't have a problem with cleaning my gear at the end of each day, no matter the grade or steepness. Do a TR burn to collect your gear and increase your fitness...

pigsteak wrote:I thought you'd say that..in that case, I'll scream even louder. PD's are a really bad idea. lazy climbers making their "sport" even lazier. only if all you pro PD's folks agree that bolting trad lines is also OK will I even agree with your "justification" for leaving this visual trash on the walls. come on, cracks need to get moving..this ain't 1997 ya know.

Does this make you and other developers who have posted on here "lazy" for leaving draws up on red-tagged routes? Because if it's about "trash" being on the wall, then let's be consistent. But maybe you don't really believe this who knows. You are usually talking out of both sides of your mouth just to keep the threads going.