RRC Archives

I may be wrong, but that doesn't sound like something the team would do.

mazzystr wrote:i believe team suck put those chains up in effort to make 5.11's and 5.12's more accessible to stick clipping sport climbers who don't want to complete the entrance exam to hard climbing. the idea was a bad one from the start.

/C

Not sure this is the case. The chain link perma's have a signature, it won't be hard for some folks to figure out.

The chain link draws should be relocated to the Lode with the rest of their littermates!

Once again it is user group behavior ... police yourselves or it will be done for you. How can you approach a private land owner/manager in the future to request access when this is an example of the result of the act of granting access. The climbing community is building its own gates and walls for exclusion in the future with its entitled attitude; it may not be "cool" to say something but not saying something ultimately leads to the risk of closure. To paraphrase Pastor Niemoller in respect to a "popular" rising some 80 years ago:

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

" I didn't speak because I wasn't a _____ and I lost regardless"

You will be remembered for what you did ...
You will be remembered for what you did not do ...
You are accountable for your own behavior ...
You will be held accountable for the behavior of your peers ...

And yet there is still no clear and effective way to enact such control over group behavior, when you are talking about tens of thousands of visitor-days per year. There can only be so many assertive "assholes" trying to police everyone at the crag. Even when there is a good force of climbers to police folks, there will always be the outliers that slip through the cracks, missed the memo, are plain ignorant, deaf, or just don't give a damn... believe me, I've tried for years. I'm afraid it is mathematically inevitable, unfortunately. All we can really do is try to set up effective preventive measures, build nice clearly delineated trails, give belaying advice when appropriate, maintain the fixed gear, clean up the aftermath and the finger tape and the energy bar wrappers and water bottles, and hope to make everyone happy enough in the end.

mazzystr wrote:i believe team suck put those chains up in effort to make 5.11's and 5.12's more accessible to stick clipping sport climbers who don't want to complete the entrance exam to hard climbing. the idea was a bad one from the start.

/C

Nope, not Team Suck. But they did do a huge rebolting effort at Roadside years ago, especially on bolts that were ready to pop out. Sorry you missed it.

pink elephant appearing....are these Ed Mank's work?

Does someone have a complete list of routes that have perma draws on them I can only remember Up yonder/Way up yonder, the return of chris snyder, and pine. Also i can get the message to ed mank.

http://www.sustainabletourismonline.com ... e-research

Worth a quick read...

The fixed gear put up on Up Yonder did have steel draws. And I spoke with the guy (was his name Joe?) bolting the route going up the steep ampitheater to the right of Up Yonder - he claimed to have gotten permission. He told me the land owner requested he not remove any trees as he put up the route.