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Word on the street is that the protests actually started when Mubarak took Baywatch off the air. The last straw. What's life without the Hoff and Pam?

ted wrote:

clif wrote:Muslim extremism. that's what i'm confused about. since we've covered god and mid east politics and spring is practically here, i figure we have a day or two to set the record straight on whether killing and war is moral, amoral or immoral, and if god weighs in. please, keep your answers short.

Not to be picky... but its Islamic Extremist. There is a fine line... Nothing very extreme about the muslim faith in whole.

would that make it necessary to refer to 'Islamic' faith then too?

cliftongifford wrote:Maybe not specifically in god's name, but the christian god ordained and justified the most recent wars in iraq and afghanistan through our president. Good old GW was spoken to by god, and was told to end tyranny in those countries. Both wars were motivated by religion on both sides.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7yTQBCM5-s

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1007-03.htm

Your points are weak. Im sure your not a Bush fan, so why would you believe what he said then! Did your hear him say it? nope, just that two Palestinians said he said it. And during the 5 minutes of my life that i wasted watching the youtube video, was nothing more than classic media making crazy angle's to feed to a weak audience. Sure theres poster's up of soldier's praying. Is this a valid confirmation that the WHOLE war is based on Christian beliefs? well, ive got ocean front property in richmond ill sale to you for cheap. Ive spent alot of my time overseas, and worked with more Muslim Interpreters and security forces than i can name. What you may not believe is that these people want democracy as well and some are willing to fight for it. Everyday day, all day, they pray to Allah. Everyday before I go out I pray to my God, side by side with these people with a mutual understanding that this isnt a crusade but a fight for a better way of life for these people. Now the intentions in the white house may be different, i dont know what the hell it is for sure, but i know it isnt over bush's christian beliefs and obama isnt really sure what he believes.



clif-would that make it necessary to refer to 'Islamic' faith then too?

I tried making it as short as possible, this might sound crazy, but once again its a fine line between the two words. In Arab countries Muslim and Islam are the same. But when speaking of an Arab Individual that follows the Quran you refer to them as Muslim. When an Act is performed or a little band of thugs put together some halfass organization they use the name Islam in it to describe there intentions from the beliefs of Islam. I know all of this is clear as mud, but maybe someone can explain it better

ted

you sound confused. there is a website run and created by Muslims which clearly describes the differences. since you did not directly answer my question, i find it necessary to highlight your use of the words 'thug' and 'halfass' as the primary terms of distinction in your mind. you clearly are a man of erudition.

ted, i apologize for that post. you are very fortunate to have worked directly with people directly involved in the struggle for their own liberation.

i applaud your efforts.

Clif- your right i am fortunate, the words "half ass" and "thugs" were used to describe organizations such as Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group,Society of the Revival of Islamic Heritage, and al qaeda just to name a few, that pervert the beliefs of Islam and make the Muslim community look really bad. I.e Extremist. No offense taken, sometimes it's hard to explain over a forum. I knew i was stepping out on shaky ground when i was trying to explain the difference.

ted, do you think the United States looks bad because of the pretext laid out for the invasion of Iraq and the thousands upon thousands of Iraqi citizens killed?

clif- I think the United States looks horrible by the pretext laid out for the invasion. There were mistakes. And words aren't Bush's strong suit. But I think it has alot to do with what we Americans see portrayed in the media and our cultural background. American's want to think things come easy and fast. We want to help people in Haiti, Africa, middle east, everywhere. But once the going gets tough, the people lose there motivation, start pointing fingers and wanna come back and forget that anything happened. Now, Thousands upon thousands killed. I think if everyone looked into the causes of these death's rather than just the numbers, U.S citizens would be screaming " send 100,000 more" " as long as it doesn't cut into gas prices". Ill leave that research to you, there are more than enough websites out there that's keeping up with the tally. Undoubtedly, there are casualties of war were innocent civilian's are caught in the crossfire, and insurgencies/extremist have use this to there advantage. It has obviously worked very well. There are more Iraqi's being killed by tribal war and insurgencies. Far,far more. I deleted about 5 minutes worth of reading, because i didnt wanna impress you with my googling skills. Also remember, this is my opinion alone. If I didnt answer your question thoroughly , i apologize, and will be glad to do so in an IM where others dont have to fall victim to a long post. So, I ask you, Obama has placed sanctions on Libya and has ordered dictator Moammar Gadhafi to stand down. These people have been oppressed and are now protesting for a change only to be ignored and killed in the streets. Should we do more? And whats too much?

I think the world is about 80% over-populated. We need to throw a big war on just for the sake of population control. Make your own reasons. Let's "get it on!"

what's too much? i'd settle for not having gas canisters with 'made in the usa' on them and having America sign the land mine ban.