RRC Archives

There is a fine line between pushing your buddy because you know he / she wants the send and pushing someone while they are sketched out and making bad choices. Unfortunately people new to the sport think these situations are interchangeable and they aren't. An experienced climber at their limit (and likely higher on the route) can use this type of motivation to push them over the hump. An inexperienced climber is not in a position to take this type of input and it usually furthers their panic.

If your friend is obviously sketched, in tunnel vision mode, and making bad choices... talk them into down climbing a couple of moves and then hoping down onto the rope. Especially in the clip #2 - 3 area. Pushing them to "just climb a little higher" might result in the "little bit of height" they need to hit the ground.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the motivation and yelling. When someone is scared, it does not help.

I am glad the climber is O.K.

But Breakfast Burrito? I don't remember the bolt positioning/spacing being bad at the beginning of the climb...

While I agree that bolt positioning (first bolt too low followed by 2nd bolt too high) is not optimal on many routes, I would have never thought of Breakfast Burrito as an example of such positioning.

Bottom line, part of leading is knowing how far you are above your last bolt/pro and how far it is to the ground (or ledge)--even when sport climbing. And part of belaying is knowing the same, letting your partner know, and belaying accordingly. You can engineer a lot of the risk out of sport climbing, but lead climbing requires doing this math continually in your head and managing risk for yourself--otherwise you're bound to get maimed pretty damn quick. Gym climbers come out to the crag programmed to think all the fancy gear and pretty clothes makes you stronger and that climbing is always safe.

Safe Climber wrote:... is the climbing community addressing preventative measures not just response management and efficiency?
Thanks,
Phil

Just about every resource on climbing in Red River Gorge that I have looked at recommends getting professional instruction. For example this is from the Daniel Boone Nat. Forest website:

DBNF wrote:Before you climb, you should be properly equipped with knowledge and gear. Take a rock climbing class at a climbing gym near your hometown and/or receive instruction from a qualified rock climbing guide on "real rock"

WARNING: Climbing is a sport where you may become seriously injured or die. Your climbing safety depends on your own judgment, based on competent instruction, experience, and a realistic assessment of your climbing ability. Please climb smart!

There are several AMGA guide services that operate in the Red River Gorge area. Also specific areas have been set up both at Muir Valley and the PMRP to be used for rock climbing instruction. For the last several years Mountain Gear has been holding it's UCLIMB event for beginning climbers in Red River Gorge: http://www.mountaingear.com/uclimb/even ... eventid=15 The RRGCC Rocktoberfest event includes clinics with professional athletes & AMGA guides for climbers of all experience levels.

Unfortunately, as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

I see no reason to blame gym climbers...

I learned to lead in the gym and it was probably a lot safer and more instructive than a lot of stories I've heard about 'seasoned' climbers and their first time out to the crag, where they're thrown a handful of draws and plunked on a route, "here ya go!" Not to mention those that just decided one day to change from rappeling off an old clothes line to climbing on an old tow rope.

It's the individuals and their groups, not necessarily where they hail from...

The problem with the gym is it creates a larger number of people introduced to the sport who are NOT prepared for the challenges and differences in climbing outside.

The old school method of learning to climb was through "apprenticeship" outside! ~ which IS the optimal way to learn how to climb.

maine wrote:The problem with the gym is it creates a larger number of people introduced to the sport who are NOT prepared for the challenges and differences in climbing outside.

The old school method of learning to climb was through "apprenticeship" outside! ~ which IS the optimal way to learn how to climb.

100% disagree...imagine that. while I too learned outside, an indoor climbing gym offers a much more controlled environment from which to teach the basics....gym climbers aren't the issue...the instruction coming form those gyms is..and gym are owned by old farts with money who should know better, right?

however, I would say rjackson is an example of what to not to do coming out of the gym..he is gym bred and cranks hard trad..those silly gym climbers...

Health insurance usually will pay for emergency ambulance transportation in an airplane or helicopter if your health condition requires immediate and rapid ambulance transportation that ground transportation can't provide.

I was introduced to climbing in a gym, but actually learned everything that mattered from a mentor outside. The problem with a lot of gyms is it's really hard to get reliable information or quality instruction... a lot of gym employees giving "lessons" are nearly as bumbly as the people being taught. These are the people you see belaying at the crag with a big loop of slack actually sitting on the ground between their device and the first bolt. My favorite is watching gym-fresh climbers run high-speed away from the wall when the climber says "take" or worse, sitting HARD on the rope when the climber is 3 feet above the last draw and slamming them heinously into the wall on what would have otherwise been a tame little fall.

Piggie, you disagree that one on one instruction outside is the best (though hardly the only) way to learn how to climb?

Not all gyms turn out poorly trained climbers, my point was that gyms provide more exposure to the sport and some people naively think that they can climb a few times in a gym and then go outside.

Gyms SHOULD do more to properly train people new to the sport.