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i'm also curious about the new routes and record keeping idea. the online guidebook had made a note of this (long ago and amazingly) ... so Team Suck is the established solution? Problems solved with increased donations? if that's the case is the Suck interested in apprenticeships for fee?

What happens when, for one reason or another, the glue-in needs replaced? Do they cut easily with a Dremel without messing up the rock face? How would one camouflage the cut out area? More epoxy and sand?

clif wrote:i'm also curious about the new routes and record keeping idea. the online guidebook had made a note of this (long ago and amazingly) ... so Team Suck is the established solution? Problems solved with increased donations? if that's the case is the Suck interested in apprenticeships for fee?

Now that's a good idea, I am personally going to contact them about that and offer to pay for an entire routes re-bolting in exchange for apprenticeship. I think I'll offer to pay for new bolts for the heavily traveled lines; Sunshine and Moonbeam. They both had new anchors last time I checked, but almost every bolt was a spinner and looked rusty from what I remember.

You should basically never need to replace a glue-in if the glue is mixed correctly and solid stainless is used. This last point is critical though... otherwise, a zinc-plated bolt would definitely become rusted after several years and require the hacksaw/Dremel if someone were to want to replace at some point the in the future... worse than an expansion bolt in that case. "Notching" the hole and burying the weld (if present) in glue is pretty key too, IMO.

Yeah, but bolters do screw up placements.

yup..I have a screwed up glue in at the Surf..decided to leave a perma long draw instead fo taking it out...

can't you just pull the bolt? usually if the components aren't mixed well it is super obvious and the bolt comes right out, no? hmm. I use the Hilti glue with the big gun because it is really easy and obvious if the glue is right or not. And it would match the pretty pink rock at the Red nicely too! I experimented with cheaper Simpson stuff a bit too but didn't like it.

There are some glue-in Titaniums out at Mickey's Beach in San Francisco that actually rotate in the hole, but don't come out. The re-equippers swear this is not abnormal and even have "engineering" evidence from the a big wig at Hilti to back them up. Scared the shite out of me regardless!!

I'm speaking more of a bolt that has been in place for six months where it's been decided by consensus and the original bolter that the placement is off for the route. Or, a bolt that's been placed in poor rock that needs moved. There are many positives to the glue-ins. I'm just wondering if anyone here has a proven removal and camouflage method if these are to become a standard in the Gorge.

Oh gotcha. Hacksaw/grinder and cover the hole with glue or plumber's putty and sand... When it comes to sport routes I usually try to toprope the route first (using RB's for directionals if necessary) and tick mark perfect bolt placements beforehand to make sure.

Toad wrote:What happens when, for one reason or another, the glue-in needs replaced? Do they cut easily with a Dremel without messing up the rock face? How would one camouflage the cut out area? More epoxy and sand?

Jim Titt and Jim Taylor have successfully core drilled out old bolts so that new glue-ins can be installed back into the same holes.

When an worn bolt DOES need to be cut, try using a battery-powered Rotozip with fiber abrasive wheel. Goes through bolts like butter.

dustonian wrote:You should basically never need to replace a glue-in if the glue is mixed correctly and solid stainless is used...

Unless folks top rope belay climbers through the anchors. We're seeing significant wear on ring anchors atop some of the more popular MV routes. Embed a climbing rope with sand, and it's a great abrasive cutting tool.