Christians?

[krampus]

just go trad climbing with brent, you might end up spooning anyway

[JR]

I found years ago that discussing religion on here is a vain endeavor.

Got a feeling you are going to demonstrate this beautifully.

I AM a Christian and I see that most people (including most "Christians") do not truly understand Christianity.

Most are not like Christ and are working far too hard for the wrong goals and in the wrong manner.

True Christianity is a flawless religion. TRUE Christianity. However, few pursue TRUE Christianity.

Let me guess. YOU possess this truth(Check out MY capitalized words)?

[dhuff]

Christianity was drastically changed by the Romans a long, long time ago. See, Jesus originally taught his followers that we are all divine beings of light, God incarnate, and that we should practice the virtues of unconditional love, forgiveness, empathy, patience, kindness, and all things of the like. He came to live as an example of humanity at it's full potential--not limited by the physical. According to the gospel of Thomas, which states that it is the words of Jesus (which Constantine apparently had removed from the scripture and buried, but was found by a farmer in the 1940s or '50s), there is no need for any sort of organization or belief structure. It's very simple. However, during that time (I think it was around 3 or 400 AD) the Roman Catholic church and the government were one in the same. Now how could the government control the behavior of it's citizens if they all knew that all men were created equal and no man, in the eyes of God, can truly hold power over another? They couldn't. So the scripture was altered and the people basically tricked into believing that they were worthless, sinful wretches who, for fear of burning in hell, must obey the edicts of the catholic church. Oh yeah, and anyone practicing Gnosticism, 'witchcraft', or anything other than Catholicism was arrested, stoned, or burned at the stake for being a heretic. So modern Christianity is very muddled with all sorts of stuff that really just gets in the way of the real teachings of Jesus. In a nut shell, Jesus taught us that we are living under a veil of perception that keeps us from realizing that we are perfect children of God, and that to get back to divinity we should live by the virtues that I mentioned earlier. And that is the key, man. Just live and love. So IF everything I said about the scripture is true, it doesn't seem possible to me that anyone could have an objection to living like that.

[tbwilsonky]

transcendent signifiers. meh. pft.

[Izzy]

dhuff,


First, there are many writings and teachings from early Christianity that didn't end up in the Bible. The reason most of them were never canonized was because their origin or author could not be verified, hence the term "apocrypha". The dispute over the gospel of Thomas is mostly over when it was written, with most scholars dating it several centuries after Thomas' death. The same goes for the Nag Hammadi library, where much of what was found has been determined to be plagiarized after the four canonized gospels were written, or by an undetermined author.

The idea that the church and Roman government manipulated the scripture is a tired argument. The evidence clearly shows that only what could be verified as written by one of the apostles, containing the actual words and actions of Jesus, as witnessed in first person, made it into the Bible.

The word Catholic means universal, or all inclusive/of the world. Which is why the church fathers were so strict as to what they would allow to be canonized. Their aim was to keep it simple and accurate to the teachings of Jesus. As opposed to many other groups who tried to combine Christianity with Roman paganism in order to make it more palletable, and easier to promote to prospective converts. Most of this conflict took place before 400a.d, which is when the church indeed was virtually taken over by the Roman government. That's when the shit hit the fan.

Some of what you said is true, but your timeline and thus a few of your facts are less than accurate. You paint a pretty negative picture of the early church, but it seems to be more fueled by your own personal opinion and supposition than the facts. [/i]

[gripster]

dhuff, I also believe, that even though the romans certainly used christianity as a means to control the governement, that Jesus wanted His followers to meet and worship together. It is helpful to spend time around others whom share your beliefs, and issues. Sin is best controlled when it is brought out in the open, not for others to judge you, but to empathize with you. Jesus recognized that the nature of the flesh trends towards sin, and that it takes a lot of resistance and self control to keep from engaging in activities that are considered sinful. I think organizing a religion has a lot of ups and downs, but if christians acted like Jesus taught us to, then the church would be a great system that could do everything from sharing beliefs and sin to creating a welfare system to help the poor. Unfortunately over time people have gotten out of touch and away from what the religion was intended to be (I am not an expert, but I try my best to follow the teachings of Christ).

Jesus Christ was a great, great man, and I don't think many people would argue that. His teachings can help anyone live a more meaningful and successful life. I think that christians and atheists a like could learn a lot from Jesus, and if we all modeled ourselves after this great man, then the whole world would be better off. Love your enemies, don't judge other people, do not create an exclusive religious system that excludes anyone, even people who are in blatant violations of the teaching of Christ. There are so many good things to learn from the Jesus.

[dhuff]

Well, my timeline may be inaccurate, and my idea may be fueled by supposition--hence the "IF everything I said about the scripture is true..."--but doesn't living with the sole intent of unconditionally loving our fellow man seem a little more like freedom than following the rules of an institution for fear of condemnation? I think that's more what Jesus was going for in his message..but that's just one guys opinion.

[Barnacle Ben]

True Christianity is a flawless religion.

[KD]

what if we combined christianity and islam into a super jihad religious organization called CHRISLAM and then kicked the shit out of everybody elses asses like the bibles say to. That would be so fuckin awesome! Think of the megamega churches we could have! not to mention radicalizing the right wing with jihadists - there could even be a Fellowship of Mohammed Cheney to guides us!

[ynot]

now we are getting somewhere!!!!