Page 6 of 37
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:00 pm
by SCIN
You and Christian got the FA but not the FFA. FFA trumps FA in both aid and toproping. That's how it has always been in the Red ( Quest, Shelter from the Storm, etc.). The ascent can be added to the guide but marked as an Aid climb and clearly marked as "Hot product" as to draw all of the 3 hard trad climbers in the 3 surrounding states for the golden prize of their names on a piece of paper.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:05 pm
by pigsteak
my head is spinning.....
but on sport routes the FA listed is assumed to also be the FFA?
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:09 pm
by rjackson
Are there still 3 hard trad climbers?
And I guess I'm guaranteed the coveted moniker of "equipped by..." no matter who gets the "FFA"
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:12 pm
by rjackson
Ray - When is the rule book getting published?!
So if I go climb a sport climb, cleanly with gear, and I'm the first to do that, then I have the FFA and the FA in the guide is null and void, as I have just trumped it?
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/images/ ... iggrin.gif
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:13 pm
by jrathfon
equipped by????! i thought we were in the tard climber's forum?
what defines hard trad? muscle shoals was pretty hard. by this definition 5.8+ and harder?
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:16 pm
by rjackson
pigsteak wrote:my head is spinning.....
but on sport routes the FA listed is assumed to also be the FFA?
Didn't you start this?
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:28 pm
by camhead
rjackson wrote:I knew when I wrote that, that it would probably bring a hell storm!
Christian led it, ground up, placing gear; and fell. Every move was done clean. That's an established FA in trad-land, but not sport. I cleaned and equipped (so I'm second), but I've also led it, and fell. Neither of us aided it!
So, the first 'red point' is up for grabs! FFA? We freed it (as any trad line), and it has never been protected by anything other than gear so is there an FFA?
So now, the debate begins again?!
there is no debate. You guys did not get the FFA. You did not get the "FA in trad land." You got the "FA in aid land," which, unless you're bagging an unclimbed tower, virgin alpine wall, or doing some seriously scary A4 stuff, is worth about as much as the "smartest kid in special ed" award. I thought we went over this a few weeks ago.
That said, if it stays dry, I may have to check out that dihedral. Sounds pretty cool!
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:38 pm
by rjackson
We all agreed to disagree.
And I'd love to see someone get on it.
We did the FA - in the 'approved' ground up style. I still contend, until I get my official rule book, that FFAs are reserved for previous climbed routes that 'required' aiding (pulling on gear) to get through, before new technology and tools made it possible.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:51 pm
by jrathfon
yup, you got the FA, you could have C1'd for the FA, or 11d A0'd, no matter, you climbed it first. FFA still up for the win!
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:52 pm
by pigsteak
crazy talk..all of it.
