Muir ratings

Post by **michaelarmand** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:06 pm

bcombs wrote:
Michael, you know better than that! Routes are graded by hardest move or what feels like the hardest move because you've done 60 moves to get there! Tuna Town?

I agree, my point was that the climb in question has a whole lot of 10a climbing followed by a single 11 move at the top - hence it is an 11.

Post by **gripster** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:59 pm

rustyvasectomy wrote:
Lander wrote: Well concensus is 11a for this climb, and the crux is way harder than AWOL. Routes are rated by the hardest move, not the average!
Well, considering the first moves of fuzzy undercling are harder than any moves on the madness, the madness is officially 11a!

dang i have missed you rusty. this does bring up the whole argument of how to grade routes at the red to begin with. grading a route based on pump factor is a lot trickier and subjective than a single hardest move situation. but as in the example you just mentioned (and there are many others) this would simply not be very accurate.

there are some soft routes at muir. there are also some routes that feel right on. so whatever, grades are there just to give you an idea not for you to live by (except for the points, the points are very important). i would also say that the climbing at muir feels different than most of the rest of the gorge. i am not even sure what is about the place but the movements, holds, everything just feels a little different, so maybe that makes it harder to get this area in line with all the others as far as grades are concerned.

Post by **JeffCastro** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:30 pm

Does anyone think that the point system has effected the accuracy of grading by consensus?

Post by **SCIN** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:57 pm

JeffCastro wrote:Does anyone think that the point system has effected the accuracy of grading by consensus?

The points shouldn't since the points don't adjust for downgrades. The points aren't based on the consensus rating.

Post by **rustyvasectomy** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:00 pm

gripster wrote: so whatever, grades are there just to give you an idea not for you to live by

Ha! I bet you are one of those people that goes rock climbing "just to have fun" and doesn't care about sending hard. What a joke...

Post by **anticlmber** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:44 pm

JeffCastro wrote:Does anyone think that the point system has effected the accuracy of grading by consensus?

no but the sponserships and lack of humidity out west has.

Post by **ahab** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:57 pm

SCIN wrote:I've been updating the online guide to correct the obvious soft routes but could've missed some. Are there any in particular that you can name?

MumMum at coyote cliff. it could use a few less bolts too.

it's new, so i understand the grade inaccuracy, but when you can clip 3 different bolts from one stance...c'mon.

Post by **Andrew** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:02 pm

I believe it was done to keep from falling on to the little ledge. You don't have to clip them if you don't want to, but yea there are probably too many bolts on it, also should probably be 11b, but a good route non the less.

Post by **bcombs** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:34 pm

ahab wrote:
SCIN wrote:I've been updating the online guide to correct the obvious soft routes but could've missed some. Are there any in particular that you can name?
MumMum at coyote cliff. it could use a few less bolts too.

it's new, so i understand the grade inaccuracy, but when you can clip 3 different bolts from one stance...c'mon.

That route was a closed project for a long time, but the guy who put the anchors in thought hard 11, hence the 11c. Of course, the FA was at the end of the day, after I drilled the route, so it probably did feel like 11c. In any case, I thought the top was hard.

Regarding the bolts though, how does the number of bolts a route has play into whether or not it is soft?

Post by **ahab** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:48 pm

bcombs wrote:That route was a closed project for a long time, but the guy who put the anchors in thought hard 11, hence the 11c. Of course, the FA was at the end of the day, after I drilled the route, so it probably did feel like 11c. In any case, I thought the top was hard.

no big deal, just thought i'd point it out since specific route names were requested. like the other inaccurate grades (in mv and elsewhere), it'll all come out in the wash.

bcombs wrote:Regarding the bolts though, how does the number of bolts a route has play into whether or not it is soft?

it doesn't, but i figured i'd throw it out there

actually, as others mentioned early on in this thread maybe they are correlated. more bolts = warm n fuzzy lead head which results in the "softy" feel.