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JR your summary of this thread does not make you an expert.

Chris Sharma is an expert at being a US famous climber, he took the title from Ron Kauk....there are plenty of Euro climbers who climb as hard as Sharma.

Loved this post. Thanks geomark.

geomark wrote:Hey "woman" you are obviously a gym climber who came outside to climb sport.

True

A lot of the old "crusty" trad climbers began climbing before you were born.

True

Just because someone can't climb 5.13 doesn't mean anything.

True

How many sport climbers could even begin to qualify as expert, none.

I disagree. It is pretty clear that you do not respect someone focusing on sport climbing so this is a hoop you would refuse to jump through.

I think a crusty trad climber with 10,000 hrs of multipitch, alpine, route finding, innovating ropework and dicey placements........ is a lot closer to an expert then an sport climbing crag climber.

I have no problem saying that the trad climber in this scenario is an expert. Past that you are comparing apples to oranges. Both fruit. You clearly are showing a preference for one over the other.

Here is a little jab. You are posting on a Red River climbing forum and you have got to know that there is very little need for the skills you cherish.

You are right. There are many ways to define "climbing". I'm not being sarcastic when i say; someone who has sent 10,000 hrs working this single problem is then by definition an expert on that problem, at least to the point he or she has gotten.

I reacted to being called "old" and "crusty", although i am but don't like it to here about it

I do respect someone who has worked as hard and is talented enough to climb ie 5.12, 13..but it doesn't interest me. A long time ago i had a none climbing girl friend who told me that "watching climbers was like watching paint dry". I live near and have climbed at Rilfe and learned what she was discribing so many years ago, when i sat for a couple of hours watching climbers work hard problems. That is also the place i learned a new word to climbing, as i knew it, as it echoed up and down the canyon "TAKE".

So i do believe that someone who has done something for 10,000 hrs is an expert at it. Wether they can satisfactory perform it by some definition, is another matter.

rhunt wrote:
Chris Sharma is an expert at being a US famous climber, he took the title from Ron Kauk....there are plenty of Euro climbers who climb as hard as Sharma.

Interesting. Let me try it.

Rhunt was an expert at climbing at the Red River Gorge, he took the title from Pigsteak...there are plenty of Lex climbers who climb as hard as Rhunt.

geomark wrote: A long time ago i had a none climbing girl friend who told me that "watching climbers was like watching paint dry". I live near and have climbed at Rilfe and learned what she was discribing so many years ago, when i sat for a couple of hours watching climbers work hard problems. That is also the place i learned a new word to climbing, as i knew it, as it echoed up and down the canyon "TAKE".

Correct me if I am wrong.

From this little parable am I supposed to glean that watching you climb would not be like watching paint dry?

It probably still is like watching paint dry. As being the paint though, I'm having fun drying. Thus the point.

JR - to be fair pigsteak took the title from me...

JR wrote:calling someone an "expert" is difficult for us.

Thread winner!

Geo is pretty much on with his remarks. DEFINATELY not a Lexichuffigan! Look around all of you at the people you've seen doing the same thing all thier life and how many of them are Experts. Time spent isn't the answer. Climb-Safe.

geomark wrote:I'm having fun drying.

But those people yelling TAKE down the canyon can't possibly be having fun. I know every time I push my limits physically, I have a shit terrible time. Easy trad FTW! Everyone else just wishes they could place gear.