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None of these following words are directed towards Mike is any way, don't take it the wrong way.
Here is my story
I don’t see how it is logical for everyone who sent the route after Mickael should be able to say they have done the same route as him. That was a proud send and his should be distinguished from all the others whom have not followed that same line. They should be discernable because that is what they are, neither is more right, neither is better, both should be available, BUT, that is not what became of it. Something had to be done, and I was the one who took the stand, and now I am the one taking all of the flak for what I and others have done and said. If you want to curse at me and call me names then that is fine, but may I remind you of how easy it is to fix damaged hangers and replace them with new ones. Yes, leaving the hangers there flattened was intentional and needed to be done to get this statement through to the climbing community, because the pros have just contributed to the current situation. I don’t care what the grades of the two routes are and do not care if they are left as the same grade, which is not what needs to be accomplished here. Now, how Joe Kinder fits into all of this is no fault but his own. It shall be noted that climbing the right variation “his projectâ€

If the left draws are removed, that will not stop me from sending that way as well, guess i will just have to do it w/o the bolts, hope it is cold.

Oh, one other thing Joe forgot to mention is that i said i was willing to take the two minutes it will take to replace the bolts and cover the costs... guess that was just overlooked.

edited

qwerty2 wrote:Oh, one other thing Joe forgot to mention is that i said i was willing to take the two minutes it will take to replace the bolts and cover the costs... guess that was just overlooked.

Then go do it.

Go do it IF he gives your draws back.

qwerty2 wrote:Oh, one other thing Joe forgot to mention is that i said i was willing to take the two minutes it will take to replace the bolts and cover the costs... guess that was just overlooked.

Why would you bother to take a hammer to those hangers to make a statement, then complain about all the flak you got, say you don't regreat doing it, then say you ofered to replace the bolts?

I don't have a stake in this per se, or know any of the parties involved personally, but that sounds kind of silly.

qwerty2 wrote: I don’t see how it is logical for everyone who sent the route after Mickael should be able to say they have done the same route as him.

Happens all the time. Its called finding better beta.

but may I remind you of how easy it is to fix damaged hangers and replace them with new ones.

Not nearly as easy as it is to not have to fix them.

Yes, leaving the hangers there flattened was intentional and needed to be done to get this statement through to the climbing community

The only statement you succeeded in making, right or wrong, is that you acted irrationally. The only people who see your point are people who agreed with you to begin with.

I do not view my actions as unreasonable and there are plenty of people out there that hold my same views, thus I do not wish I had acted differently about this whole situation.

Thats the problem with having "friends". Most won't ever tell you how much of an idiot you're being.

it blows my mind how widespread this has become… maybe this says something about the climbing community

Maybe you shoulda looked a little harder at the community before you made your decision. I'm suprised its so small still. Its because its a weekend and people are out climbing... it'll get bigger. Just wait.

maybe it proves just how willing we have all become to cut someone down and ruin someone’s name at the slightest opportunity.

Become? Its been like that since the beginning of time.

I bet Joe never told anyone he and Brad Weaver were the ones removing my draws from the route, what is up with that???

You PM me asking that I remove your name from my post, and then throw Brad into it?? You're a hypocrite of the worst kind. I, for one, will use my voice to make sure people know it.

Looking at the loses, I’ve lost $120 from this route, and have taken away $8, who should be the one catching the most flak???

Not exactly. If it takes a total of 6 hours (low estimate) to get together a drill, the bolts and hangers, drive there, hike them in, clean up the mess of flattened hangars, and get back home.... then even at the VERY low price of $80 an hour, not including gas or cost of bolts, you've cost somebody $480. So, to answer... you should be catching even more flak.


I'm sure you're a nice guy. In the one encounter we've had, you certainly seemed to be. But like you said, a statement needs to be made to the climbing community. You missed the mark... but made yourself one. Congratulations.

man. I am just too old to even care about this kindergarten crap.

I just went out and spent $100 of my money, plus time and gas, and a day of NOT climbing, to bolt another line in the southern region. If anyone someday chooses to slash a route of mine, please have the decency to contact me first.

i just find it funny how entitled Joe kinder feels to send "his project." Of course, he was going to send that day, and the only thing that stopped the dude was the chopped bolts. Fucking excuses. If the is strong enough to send, he should just clip the old bolts and send.